Gas prices goin up...

Posted by: mommapup.

Gas prices goin up... - 02/18/12 08:38 AM


Posted by: grizzly

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/18/12 12:49 PM


...
Posted by: Dennis_H_N.J.

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/18/12 03:07 PM

And Brazil runs their cars on pure ethanol.. Were so stupid in this country..
Posted by: Joe_Guy

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/18/12 05:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Dennis_H_N.J.
And Brazil runs their cars on pure ethanol..


That's not true.

Automobile engines that aren't manufactured for racing vehicles won't run on pure ethanol. Brazil is a major producer of ethanol, but the cars they use over there are no different than what the rest of the world uses.
Posted by: EAP

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/21/12 04:46 PM

Originally Posted By: bozodog


Tell me what isn't going up with this current administration? That doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

Have you seen food? It's in the running to see what can go up faster? It or gas?

Crime: up up up.

Taxes: Hold on to your wallet: up up and up although they throw a few small bones by offering out a temporary payroll tax freeze.

Business-choking gov't regulations: up up up.

You better watch out and you better well cry, hold onto your wallet and I'm tellin' you why: The Dingy old Grinch is coming to town. All across America.

Remember that come November.
Posted by: grizzly

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/21/12 05:05 PM


...50% will. whistle
Posted by: Bob_Fleming

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/21/12 08:07 PM

Actually, from what I read, crime is down in many places.

But add another thing to your list: medical costs. Our supplemental insurance has gone up significantly, and drug prices are being boosted almost weekly. Most doctors we deal with using Medicare have now added a pre-payment because they are now getting 21% less from Medicare.

Good example: we both take Coumadin blood thinner. It is a generic and we get it at $2-4/month at our supermarket pharmacy. There is a new generic blood thinner now available - with supposedly better response. I asked what it would cost. With my Medicare Part D insurance it is $318/month!
Posted by: New_Climber

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/22/12 09:51 PM

Can you say "inflation"...

Oh that is right they keep telling me there is NO inflation...

when the Fed prints money faster then even the Federal Govt can spend it...it shows up somewhere...Food, Energy,etc...

But then again, some believe that the printing of money has nothing to do with the cost of things we need...food, clothing, energy.
Posted by: Dennis_H_N.J.

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/23/12 05:53 AM

So I guess what the history channel had on was "bupkiss"!
Posted by: mommapup.

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/23/12 06:14 AM

Inflation figures that don't include energy and food are the biggest lie coming out of Washington.
Posted by: New_Climber

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/23/12 07:33 AM

Funny thing about that...

I read an article recently that the FED wants to take Food, Energy and now Housing, due to the housing market being so unstable in recent years, out of the inflation calculation..

So, of the things that are necessary to life...Food, Shelter, Energy (heating, transportation) and clothing...Clothing is the only necessity that will be left in the inflation calculation....

I am glad that my iPod cost half price than a year ago....but it does me no good if I am hungry or cold and homeless!!

And people call me crazy for not wanting to believe or listen to the LIEs coming from Washington DC!!
Posted by: Able_Dog

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/23/12 08:22 AM

I'm afraid I have to agree with Gingrich's plan which simply put is "drill baby drill".

The position that as long as we're oil dependent alternative sources won't happen just isn't working (for whatever reason). Oil prices coupled with this economy is absolutely wrecking a lot of people's finances.

And if war breaks out in Iran and I'd say 60/40 on that one, it's going to get a lot worse.

If Gingrich's numbers are anywhere near accurate we can pull out of this deficit with the increased oil production plus a lot more jobs.

The middle east is killing us. I don't see a better way (for what that's worth)
Posted by: mommapup.

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/23/12 09:00 AM

Another good idea being put forth is ONE gasoline blend for the whole nation. Seems that could lower the price about a $1gal, almost instantly.

Kinda makes sense.
Posted by: mommapup.

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/23/12 09:02 AM

WHOA!!!!!!

Welcome back AD!
Posted by: Uncle_Alvah

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/23/12 09:28 AM

Quote:
I'm afraid I have to agree with Gingrich's plan which simply put is "drill baby drill".


As I understand it, theres no current shortage of oil now, but oil companies are making the decision to sell more to China. Increasing domestic production does not insure that the oil is for domestic consumption.

Quote:
The U.S. department of Energy provides somewhat of an answer. In a recent report, it increased its estimate of U.S. exports of petroleum products to 3.06-million barrels per day from its previous estimate of 2.88-million barrels per day. The new forecast is up 900,000 barrels per day from year-ago levels.

To add further perspective, Tim Simard, managing director at NBC Energy Group, highlighted the fact that total refined product exports were the largest component of U.S. exports in 2011. Therefore, U.S. product prices are "more closely tied to global product prices because the marginal oil price for most refiners in the U.S. is still a foreign barrel from a feedstock cost perspective. And world prices are robust."

Posted by: Able_Dog

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/23/12 01:21 PM

Originally Posted By: bozodog
Another good idea being put forth is ONE gasoline blend for the whole nation. Seems that could lower the price about a $1gal, almost instantly.

Kinda makes sense.


That's dramatic, if it's accurate. "Makes sense" work for us but not the clowns running things in government.

Our government I always thought was "crisis management", wait for a crisis then react. I don't think they even do that any more.

And Alvah

"Increasing domestic production does not insure that the oil is for domestic consumption."

Any loosening up on drilling should have provisions where the oil is going (or can't go) but in the past they got around that by selling to "A" then "A" sold to "B".

And thanks Boz.
Posted by: JasonB

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/23/12 01:24 PM

I'm not sure a single gasoline mix for the nation is practical... The gasoline that starts my car easily at -20 will cause large hydrocarbon emissions in Florida. The lower emitting Florida mixture won't start my car at -20.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something here. Which happens.

J
Posted by: Bob_Fleming

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/23/12 02:27 PM

Question: Are three grades of gas still needed? I have to assume so or stations would not bother with them. But I have never owned a car in recent years that required more than Regular.
Posted by: EAP

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/23/12 04:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Bob_Fleming
Actually, from what I read, crime is down in many places.

But add another thing to your list: medical costs. Our supplemental insurance has gone up significantly, and drug prices are being boosted almost weekly. Most doctors we deal with using Medicare have now added a pre-payment because they are now getting 21% less from Medicare.

Good example: we both take Coumadin blood thinner. It is a generic and we get it at $2-4/month at our supermarket pharmacy. There is a new generic blood thinner now available - with supposedly better response. I asked what it would cost. With my Medicare Part D insurance it is $318/month!



Crime in the logic-free zone (Washington, D.C.) is up 40%. Crime locally (Toledo) is also up. Police are frustrated that they can not handle it as effectively as they have in the past. To help they are intalling 150 security cameras to monitor hot spots.

To the south of us in a collge town called Bowling Green crime is up. To the north of us in the Motor City (Detroit) crime is also rising.

Crime may be down in many places but I would disagree with the notion of most.
Posted by: Bob_Fleming

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/23/12 05:43 PM

Sorry to hear that crime is increasing in those areas. Not surprising in DC and Detroit however.

Our county (Eagle county, CO) built a new and very expensive addition to the jail recently in anticipation of the need. Pretty place, but it sits vacant because the anticipated increased need didn't develop. They are considering converting it to a public roller rink.
Posted by: mommapup.

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/24/12 05:10 AM

I gotta wonder what kind of crime. Is it violent crime, or is it a sign of the jobless state of our economy? I know for sure there is a lot of burglaries, and metal thefts going on. The local scrap yard now requires registering name, address, and picture ID to sell there.
Posted by: CabinConnection

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/24/12 05:21 AM

Originally Posted By: Dennis_H_N.J.
So I guess what the history channel had on was "bupkiss"!

Or you misunderstood the show... >>> Just the facts <<<



Posted by: notnew2diy

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/24/12 06:56 AM

"Are three grades of gas still needed?"....probably.
Back in the day, the type of gas needed depended upon the compression ratio. 10:1 or greater you should run premium.
Posted by: JasonB

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/24/12 07:43 AM

Still more or less the case...

These days, refinerys produce only 2 grades in general: Regular and Supreme (or whatever the local nomenclature is).

The days of a gas station actually having a mid-grade tank are pretty much gone. Only old legacy stations will still have them. Where they exist, the refinery loadrack fills the delivery truck with a 50/50 mix of Regular and Supreme.

In most stations, there are only regular and Supreme tanks. The dispenser (gas pump) itself blends regular and supreme to create 1 or more mid-grades. You can tell your dispenser is a blender if it uses a single hose/nozzle to dispenser all the gasoline grades. Stations with dedicated midgrade tanks will typically have dispensers with one hose/nozzle per each grade.

Incidentally, where you have a station with blending dispensers, the first gallon or so you receive is whatever the guy before bought, as the volume between meter and nozzle must be displaced before the new mix gets thru.

J
Posted by: mommapup.

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/24/12 07:47 AM

Question? When did seasonal/regional blends begin? Can't there be an equal compromise, or at least a minimum few? Like North, South, and perhaps middle.
Posted by: JasonB

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/24/12 08:06 AM

I don't know when seasonal blending began. It's been around a long time. I would guess it's probably been the way since at least the '50's, perhaps earlier. It does affect the amount of gasoline that can be yeilded from a given crude source with a given refining technology. Newer cracking techniques help maximize that production.

I doubt seasonal blending is a really major impactor on gasoline prices. The larger driver would probably be specialized blends made to address local air quality concerns in certain jurisdictions. Small batch processing is always more expensive.

I could be wrong. Most of what I know of the industry begins after the refinery loadrack, from bulk plant to end user.

J
Posted by: New_Climber

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/26/12 02:14 PM

To me drilling will not do anything to reduce the price of oil...otherwise, there would be a shortage right now. I have never seen a gas station without gas in my lifetime....Even if we did extract more oil domestically, the price of oil is sold on the global market...so it would not reduce the price, UNLESS there is price manipulation happening right now. This is also the reason why I am tired of hearing people say how the oil companies are wrong for having record profits. They are just collecting what is dictated by the global market....if the US really wanted to do something about their profits, then we need to break up the big 2 oil companies...or put in protectionism methods so what oil is drilled here...stays here. The other thing that can happen, is the SEC can stop the speculation in the market. I heard an idea back when oil was $150+/barrel that if you traded an oil contract on the commodity market, you needed to take possession of 10% of you trade...not just resell it. That way, only people or companies that had a need to purchase oil would....the rest of the trading speculator would not have the means to take possession hence could not trade the commodity....is it fair..maybe...

The other thing I don't understand, the price of gas just plummeted at beginning of the year....the reason was over supply as I read. Now, price is skyrocketing...why?? Where does the supply and demand come from...or is the fact that we get our gas from only a handful of companies, supply and demand doesn't count and they can do what they want with the price?? If supply is a problem, why is there not a push to build a new refinery??? Most likely because there is no need, as there is plenty of supply…
Posted by: Bob_Fleming

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/26/12 04:41 PM

I sure don't know the reasons behind the supposed supply/demand pricing, but I question if it is a free market. But I do remember a newspaper article some time back telling that a couple major refiners were closing refineries for lack of need.
Posted by: New_Climber

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/26/12 10:49 PM

So would that be price manipulation instead of supply and demand?? They say the price of crude oil plays a big roll, but for what reason?? Surely not because of supply and demand of the oil?

Or, is it the same old thing for the US...with all the regulations, and inflation the real cost of gas is really at $5/gal, not because of supply and demand or anything to do with the free market!!
Posted by: captain150

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/26/12 10:55 PM

Originally Posted By: JasonB
I'm not sure a single gasoline mix for the nation is practical... The gasoline that starts my car easily at -20 will cause large hydrocarbon emissions in Florida. The lower emitting Florida mixture won't start my car at -20.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something here. Which happens.

J


Seems to me, with modern fuel injection, this shouldn't be much of a problem. Use the less volatile fuel from Florida in Canada. Fuel injection should handle it no? With a strong enough battery, fuel injection seems to start an engine at damn near any temperature.

Maybe it persists due to the few carbureted cars still around, or for small equipment (lawnmowers etc). Seems like a waste and would be easier to sell an additive for those applications.
Posted by: notnew2diy

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/27/12 04:30 AM

"I have never seen a gas station without gas in my lifetime"...
The Arab oil embargo in the 70's had many stations w/o gas in my area. Some were rationing (10 gal max) so everyone could get gas. Lines for gas were blocks long.
And the price, IIRC, was an unheard of $.90/gallon

I saw something on ABC news recently, speculators take $16.00 on each barrel of oil. If you have a 401K, this may be a good thing for your retirement.

JMO...The sad thing is, we are still (if not more) dependant on oil than in the 70's. The politicians have ensured we stay this way.

Last Tuesday, filled up at $3.43. 8 hours later $3.69. Filled up yesterday morning at $3.69. 8 hours later its $3.89. Its like this at every station in town.

The gassy....notnew...
Posted by: Able_Dog

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/27/12 08:00 AM

Originally Posted By: notnew2diy
"I have never seen a gas station without gas in my lifetime"...
The Arab oil embargo in the 70's had many stations w/o gas in my area. Some were rationing (10 gal max) so everyone could get gas. Lines for gas were blocks long.
And the price, IIRC, was an unheard of $.90/gallon

I saw something on ABC news recently, speculators take $16.00 on each barrel of oil. If you have a 401K, this may be a good thing for your retirement.

JMO...The sad thing is, we are still (if not more) dependant on oil than in the 70's. The politicians have ensured we stay this way.

Last Tuesday, filled up at $3.43. 8 hours later $3.69. Filled up yesterday morning at $3.69. 8 hours later its $3.89. Its like this at every station in town.

The gassy....notnew...





Quote:
The Oil Shocks of the 70s
by Bob Powell, 5/4/05 Printer page
Email article


The "common wisdom" is that Jimmy Carter was to blame for the gas crises in the 70s. Many use them as examples that Democrats can't be trusted on economic issues. But it's not that simple. Jimmy Carter got a bad rap!

There were two "oil shocks" in the 70s.

The first was the increase in the price in the fall of 1973. This was a result of Nixon devaluing the dollar and abandoning the gold guarantee. See the Chronology below.

The second was in the summer of 1979. It was the result of individually logical actions that were collectively irrational.

John Sterman, in Business Dynamics, Systems Thinking for a Complex World, includes an assignment Challenge (p. 212) on the oil shock in the summer of 1979. He explains what caused the long gas lines in the Instructors Manual, p. 82:

So, where did the gas go in 1979? The total inventory of gas in the system remained nearly constant. But the actions of nervous drivers moved the gas from below ground tanks at the corner gas stations to above ground rolling storage [in vehicle gas tanks].

The fear of shortages was a self-fulfilling prophesy that created artificial, speculative demand that caused lines and price increases. OPEC and President Carter were blamed, but we did it to ourselves.

So when many panicked and felt they had to top off their gas tanks, others saw the long lines and panicked, too. The extra volume of gas required to completely fill all the gas tanks of all the cars exceeds 2.5 days of supply in the supply line to gas stations.

Sterman:

The crisis should ease once the average car is nearly full ... [and] once deliveries ... are accelerated, every customer should be able to buy what they need.

Rationing schemes such as odd/even license plate rules or maximum purchase rules (e.g., 5 gal max.) ... [only reinforce perceptions] that the shortage is real and cause drivers to top off more often ... strengthening the positive loops and intensifying the shortage.

A much more effective policy is a minimum purchase of 10 gallons. You would have to pay for 10 gals whether your tank took it or not. ... Implementing such a counterintuitive policy would require great political courage on the part of government officials, but education about the dynamics of these self-fulfilling hoarding crises would help build public support. At the very least, policymakers should avoid imposing rationing schemes that only worsen the problem.

For additional details and a system dynamics model, see Oil Shock.

_______________________

Chronology leading to the oil shock in 1973

The U.S. started the chain of events when Nixon devalued the dollar relative to the gold and finally abandoned the gold guarantee. The Oil Shock came when OPEC raised the price of oil to compensate. The increased price of oil rippled through the economy, causing inflation. The Fed raised interest rates to "fight inflation" causing the recession of the 80s and increasing the value of the dollar relative to foreign currencies (the Dollar Shock). This made imports less expensive and caused the Trade Shock; it was cheaper to manufacture products abroad and import them. Deregulation was another response to reduce costs (The Deregulation Shock); subtly and systematically, this resulted in a corporate culture where national interest was of decreasing consideration in business decisions. Hence our increasing economic and defense vulnerability.


How many remember Johnny Carson making a joke about toilet paper on the "Tonight Show" and causing a run on toilet paper (no pun intended) and a shortage in many areas?

People are crazy and panic easily, it's scary.
Posted by: CabinConnection

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/27/12 08:10 AM

Originally Posted By: Able_Dog
How many remember Johnny Carson making a joke about toilet paper on the "Tonight Show" and causing a run on toilet paper (no pun intended) and a shortage in many areas?

People are crazy and panic easily, it's scary.

And how many recall Orson Welles' "The War Of The Worlds" radio broadcast, and the panic IT caused???? shocked

(Halloween, 1938)
Posted by: New_Climber

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/27/12 11:39 AM

Able... I totally agree with what you are saying...panic caused a gas problem in the 70's.

But what is the cause today?? What is the cause of prices spiking?? There is no shortage of oil or gas, no rules for odd and even license plate numbers? In fact, here in Washington there was just a refinery fire...that I would think would cause a real shortage right? At least in the very short term, until supplies can be brought in from other parts of the country? But no, prices just spiked and continue to spike. Even if it did cost more to bring gas in by train, (as I would think it would be the most efficient way to move a product like this a far distance) you can't tell me it cost $0.50 per gallon more to move the product with the volume of gas a train can move.

So what is the "real" cause??? If panic is the full cause, where is the president giving us leadership to say there is no need for panic??? He can't because in my opinion, panic is not the cause....

I go back to Inflation...and market manipulation.

What happened just before the housing crisis hit in 2008?? Oil spiked to $150+/barrel with no shortage of crude or gas at all. Who stood to lose a LOT of money if the banks failed due to a mortgage crisis?? So my question....Oil is spiking again...for no real reason (until the jets fly in Iran)...what is the real crisis that is going to hit of which why they are dumping their money into oil to save their butts??...hence the market manipulation…

Inflation…well, they have been running the printing press for what 4yrs now….The other end of the economic equation has to show up somewhere!

Yea, I know, another conspiracy theory....as I would also agree
Posted by: JimTheTinkerer

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/27/12 12:34 PM

Quote:

you can't tell me it cost $0.50 per gallon more to move the product with the volume of gas a train can move.


You're the expert, apparently. (??)
You take it from the pipeline and put it in a truck
(the pipelines don't have taps at every railway).
You drive it to the railyard.
You pump it into the railcar.
You pump it out of the railcar.
You drive the other truck to deliver...a bit longer.

Could it be cheaper? Sure, after years and amortizing
costs of infrastructure.

For now, closing refineries are spiking gas
prices, plus the oil adds to that.


Quote:

So what is the "real" cause??? If panic is the full cause,


It isn't. Speculator panic, more like.
Deregulation gives us this gift.
Short term.

Quote:

where is the president giving us leadership to say there is no need for panic???


Actually, on the TV most days.
You must be watching TV that cuts him off.
Not fair to complain, then.


Quote:

What happened just before the housing crisis hit in 2008??


It hit in late 2006.


Quote:

Oil spiked to $150+/barrel with no shortage of crude or gas at all.


And surely...it collapsed when gasoline consumption plunged.
Remember? Guess not. That was: deflation. Up...down.


Quote:

Who stood to lose a LOT of money if the banks failed due to a mortgage crisis??


Hard to understand what this means.
Specify who.

The biggest losers were loan originators
and default instrument traders. That's a fact.
I'm raking my mind to figure out how that ties in.


Quote:

So my question....Oil is spiking again...for no real reason


The real reason is huge increases
in demand from China. That's been in
The Economist, Bloomberg News, and tons of places.
This is no surprise, all over the world.
You need to get actual news.
Helps you figure out things.


Quote:

(until the jets fly in Iran)...


Well....Iran is the speculator's reason..
that much is true. But they make it go
up....down
..this is how they profit, not on steady prices.


Quote:

what is the real crisis that is going to hit of which why they are dumping their money into oil to save their butts??...hence the market manipulation…


Sorta true, but the good manipulators dump on
the newbies. They're happy and safe then.


Quote:

Inflation…well, they have been running the printing press for what 4yrs now….The other end of the economic equation has to show up somewhere!



Maybe, but this isn't a good example at all.
Gold is still stuck at 1600-1800 / oz. after a couple years.
I'm miffed, for one.

Quote:

another conspiracy theory..


Actually, your theory of simple govt. printing is the
most legit. theory compared to others.
We've been round and round on where it comes from, though.


If energy or other resources rise a lot now,
I think the average American won't paid enough
to make it up. That means: declining standard of living,
because other people in the world outbid us.
Not an inflation spiral, but a sort of
slow vampire draining. A little inflation,
less credit, higher loan rates, lower % on
your investments.

Y'now: like the last 5 years, on average.
Value and money sucked away.


Some bright news: China is paying huge bucks for
US pilots, and now teachers and middle managers.
That leads to my conspiracy theory:
US big biz and China are sucking the lifeblood away
on bad credit and speculation.
That's not hard to see, methinks.

I'd worry about my training and employability
more than the dollar. Either that or
find places where subisstance is cheaper.

Posted by: rfm3

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/27/12 02:59 PM

I do not understand the one excuse of Iran and their threat to close the Strait of Hormuz. They have not done it yet. They may not. If they do, I am sure it can be reopened with some method of enforcement

So why claim prices are going up for that when it has not happened?
Posted by: EAP

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/27/12 07:04 PM

There is MORE to it then and now...

Back in 1973 the Arabs retaliated against the Western World for supporting Israel during the Yom Kippur (war) that the Arabs brought on again (first in 1948; then 1967 followed by 1973) and Israel canned their fat fannies.

Moving ahead to this day and age of computer and informational technology, there is no reason (imo) that oil companies can not alter their profit models (in their software programs) to regulate their own profits.

They do not; subsequently they make huge profits. I am not against them making profits but obscene ones are another story. A lot of things and technologies that did not exist then kept things more in check. Sad to say there's: "too much technology in too many hands" sparking these power and money grabs: call it greed!

I understand that the fortunes rise and fall like goliaths in the huge industries like oil. However, again, where is the ethical restraint?

I also don't buy the lame excuses that the government can not do anything about it. They seem to be quite able to stick their nose where the sun don't shine in quite alot of other stuff.

The writing has been on the wall for decades and going on 7 years (Hurricane Katrina) and little has been done to keep these wild price swings in check.

If we could land men on the moon not once but 6 times, how the ^%$# can we not take steps to ease the swings in the price of oil and gas?

That ought to make sense at least to you engineer-types out there. whistle
Posted by: captain150

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/27/12 08:31 PM

Originally Posted By: EAP

If we could land men on the moon not once but 6 times, how the ^%$# can we not take steps to ease the swings in the price of oil and gas?

That ought to make sense at least to you engineer-types out there. whistle



The basic problem;

1. The world as we know it needs energy, a lot of energy.

2. Energy, especially the forms we currently use (oil, gas, coal) is a finite resource.

In capitalism, the free market should regulate itself more or less. A pure capitalist state has never existed. The obvious reason is because not all products and services are equal. Regulation is essential. If we can figure out a way to get unlimited energy for almost no cost...things will change drastically.

I like to dream of a day when fusion power is cheap and easy. I don't think it's unreasonable. In 1930, a hydrogen bomb was pure science fiction. 25 years later, fusion became routine.
Posted by: New_Climber

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/28/12 10:11 AM

Quote:
U.S. gasoline consumption has been declining for the past four years, in part due to the weak economy but also a 20 percent increase in automobile fuel efficiency in the past decade, according to Fadel Gheit, senior energy analyst with Oppenheimer.


http://www.cnbc.com/id/46552445

From reading this little section of the above link...is it safe to say that $5/gal gas is going to be the norm....

If increased MPG or the increase in electric car tech is going to drive MPG up, then it seems that this is part of the core problem with high gas prices...

Seems very conflicting to me.....

Very similar to how my electric rates increased in January by 18%....part of the main reason was consumption was down??

So they tell me to lower my T-state and keep my house cooler, turn off lights, use more efficient lights....drive less, car pool, buy more fuel efficient cars.....

All then to increase the cost of the energy used so nothing changes on their part... the main reason for the increase is lower energy consumption? This what the experts tell me is why the cost is increasing.

BUT...

I am colder at home, now have a car payment for the new efficient car, am more inconvenienced with our I drive....

Who is the fool here?
Posted by: New_Climber

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/28/12 10:15 AM

Quote:
The basic problem;

1. The world as we know it needs energy, a lot of energy.

2. Energy, especially the forms we currently use (oil, gas, coal) is a finite resource.


See Cap this is my problem..

Yes, we use a lot of energy...but as of today, there is no shortage of this finite resource...but we are cutting back to save it of which I agree and do my part...

They tell me that the cost increase has nothing to do with shortage....

Mainly due to the usage is lower....so how is using less energy...less of the finite resource a problem?

It a problem because the cost is increasing due to lower usage.
Posted by: JimTheTinkerer

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/28/12 11:27 AM


Quote:

Yes, we use a lot of energy...but as of today, there is no shortage of this finite resource...


There is, at a lower price.
Every oil source has its own production cost.
Albert sands would shut down under $75 a barrel.


Quote:

They tell me that the cost increase has nothing to do with shortage....


Temporary shortage makes temporary increase.
Long term shortage makes long term increase.

Quote:

.less of the finite resource a problem?


???


Quote:

It a problem because the cost is increasing due to lower usage.


You're using the glitch from
closing two refineries to prove
everything else.


Somehow there is this time-dyslexia / hyper-generalization
problem: you move things foraward and backward in time,
you pick one increase in one time and call it all times..
...

When you re-arrange the facts like that,
it isn't just invalid argumentation. It
could lead to decisions where you act like things
will happen and they don't happen.
Posted by: New_Climber

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/28/12 02:10 PM

You pick apart each sentence to the point where it makes no sense...Kind of like a lawyer/politician does

Quote:
Quote:

.less of the finite resource a problem?


???


The entire quote was "Mainly due to the usage is lower....so how is using less energy...less of the finite resource a problem?

The article said that part of the big problem is increase in MPG and less usage due to the economy....so I asked "why is using less of a finite resource a problem? See the entire sentence makes more sense than picking apart each phase wink

Quote:
Somehow there is this time-dyslexia / hyper-generalization
problem: you move things forward and backward in time,
you pick one increase in one time and call it all times..
...

When you re-arrange the facts like that,
it isn't just invalid argumentation. It
could lead to decisions where you act like things
will happen and they don't happen.


No not really.....if you follow my entire argument and not each phase out of context...

I read what the "experts" have to say...and make a conclusion on what I have previously learned/have been told, and what they are saying now...

They tell me in 2006/08 that the price shot up due to shortage...peak oil theory....increase usage from developing countries. Now, we still have a sluggish economy, we have more efficient cars, more efficient homes (due to the housing bubble)...and now they say the increase in price is due to lower usage largely in part to all the things I just stated above. This is not just for Gas...but also electric and I would bet to say heating oil being I have no experience with that.

The only thing I am guilty of is listen to analyst that are called "experts" along with what I see in everyday life and forming my opinion...BUT these "experts" might not have a clue on that they are talking about….

Remember these are the same “experts” that publish you charts and stats you link….so if they are wrong when I read them and form an opinion, maybe you sources are not as accurate as you might think!!
Posted by: Bob_Q

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 02/28/12 03:54 PM

[quote=New_Climber]You pick apart each sentence to the point where it makes no sense...Kind of like a lawyer/politician does

[quote]
Exacty! I read the entire post twice and still didn't know what I read. A single sentence,or part of one,doesn't mean what a paragraph does.
Posted by: mommapup.

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/03/12 09:21 AM

Well, it's done. Regular gas here has gone over $4. $4.02 at one local station, $3.99 at most others. frown
Posted by: morrisdancer

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/03/12 09:43 AM

And oooh boy were we busy at my store, since we decided not to raise prices till the 5pm. And then all the crazies who insist on driving for Mountain Dew and liquor during "blizzard conditions".

13 1/2 hour day for me, but the bank deposit compared to a Friday during the Summer. Too tired to think to look at the customer count, but it had to also compare to Summer Fridays.

Liz
Posted by: New_Climber

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/07/12 01:25 PM

Was it last week, I heard Obama say to help relieve the cost of gas, “we need to increase the MPG standard for car manufactures...

But..But..

The CNN analysis above says the problem is the lower demand for gas is driving prices up...

So which is it....we have increase our MPG and use more fuel to fix the same problem...they are opposites...

I have to assume the Obama is getting his information for experts....yet, when I do my research the same experts say the opposite!!

It just doesn’t make any sense??
Posted by: grizzly

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/07/12 01:31 PM


...are you questioning the regime? whistle
Posted by: yardmaster

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/07/12 02:36 PM

Saw something interesting...

Local Shell station...

Regular w/Car Wash $3.61
Regular $3.71
Premium $3.81

Guess also have to pay for car wash to get reduced rate?
Posted by: JimTheTinkerer

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/08/12 04:41 AM

Quote:

But..But..

The CNN analysis above says the problem is the lower demand for gas is driving prices up...


In the short term...the refinery closings.
You keep repeating the same time-dyslexic stuff over and over.

At 38 mpg, it doesn't matter much to me.
Posted by: New_Climber

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/08/12 10:20 AM

Quote:
You keep repeating the same time-dyslexic stuff over and over


Where...and How...I am just repeating what I hear and research. Both the analyst’s report is current within a few weeks, and the president speech is as of last week. I really hope you don’t consider that “outdated information”.

You will pay at 38MPG...because gas will be $10/per gal if the analyst is correct....

When listening to the analyst, if we were using more gas...aka, had cars at 20MPG we would pay less.

My problem is who is straight up lying to me?? The president, or the analyst. Both, we say are "experts", of which both have a very LARGE effect on my life each and every day...in this situation each and every time I fill up the gas tank....even at 38MPG!!!!
Posted by: New_Climber

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/08/12 10:20 AM

Originally Posted By: grizzly

...are you questioning the regime? whistle


I am sure I am already on a watch list somewhere!!
Posted by: code_ceis

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/08/12 11:52 AM

"experts", ? confused

Definition

EX - HAS been.

Spurt Drip under pressure.

EX-Spurt Has been drip under pressure. grin
Posted by: grizzly

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/08/12 11:59 AM

Originally Posted By: New_Climber
Originally Posted By: grizzly

...are you questioning the regime? whistle


I am sure I am already on a watch list somewhere!!


...I AM TOO!!! wink
Posted by: JimTheTinkerer

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/08/12 02:29 PM

Originally Posted By: New_Climber
Quote:
You keep repeating the same time-dyslexic stuff over and over


Where...and How...I am just repeating what I hear and research. Both the analyst’s report is current within a few weeks, and the president speech is as of last week. I really hope you don’t consider that “outdated information”.

You will pay at 38MPG...because gas will be $10/per gal if the analyst is correct....

When listening to the analyst, if we were using more gas...aka, had cars at 20MPG we would pay less.

My problem is who is straight up lying to me?? The president, or the analyst. Both, we say are "experts", of which both have a very LARGE effect on my life each and every day...in this situation each and every time I fill up the gas tank....even at 38MPG!!!!



I correct myself...
you seem to be amazingly time-dyslexic.
I hope you're not investing in this light show
because your "analysts" have your data
pre-dated, post-dated, time switched, and extrapolated
enough that you're ripe for fleecing.

I'm not talking about gas prices in the economy anymore..
I thnk I'm looking at some pretty intense 3-card montey
psychosis.


I used to wonder why gold-buying was huge, gold-selling
was huge at the little gold shops, and the price just
hung around almost the same. Seeing your posts
I understand how millions of people
can get churned so bad.

So...heh...thanks for that, anyway.
Think might hang around the buy-gold store
and check out some of the babbling.
At the keno parlor nobody talks.
Makes research hard.
Posted by: EAP

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/08/12 04:44 PM

Back to the subject: Gas around here is around $3.569 if you hunt. Normally they raise on Thursday however the past several years, normal rise days can be anyday with the exception of the weekend.

I think they're just in a holding pattern unti the next so-called clamity in the world gives an excuse to push up again.

Speaking of calamities, Obama's EPA is probably the worse in recent times and is causing some of these price spikes with the shutting of refineries due to their thug-like tactics. And over regulation.

Oil refineries aren't the only ones either, power utilities also feeling their wrath.

Just pay it forward (EPA)...come November will shove it back you morons!
Posted by: New_Climber

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/09/12 05:33 AM

http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html

Wow....if you definition of Gold going no where looking at the 5yr chart...I think I have some beach front property for you in Phoenix wink

I do think you have highlighted the core problem...the core with almost everything in the market today. Who do you listen to?? Obviously you listen to research and reports you agree with and don't listen to the reports I read...because you don't agree....the reversely for me.

The problem is...you and I don't make laws and policy that effect everyone...the president does...and I have to assume being he is not a financial expert, as I don't expect him to be, he is listening to the experts....of which which side of the fence do they come from...your backyard or mine??
Posted by: JimTheTinkerer

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/09/12 06:08 AM

Yummy.
More cherry-picking.
Clever, picking 5 years.

The 1-year is boring, and it should be
spiking much higher to match your hysteria.

The consumption went down.
Refineries had to close.
That affected some areas a lot, some a little.
Here, the barrel price dominates, the
refinery effect is minimal. We get NB supplies
and NJ supplies.

Hmmm... refinery effect higher in some
places than others. Sounds like the free
market dragging gasoline into the dark spots
until the price pays for new infrastructure.

This is real economics.
Get a grip.

Posted by: JimTheTinkerer

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/09/12 07:21 AM

You mention gold.
5 year chart.

click to the 5-yr gasoline chart:

http://www.newyorkgasprices.com/retail_price_chart.aspx

Interesting.
Up and down and up.
And the shape doesn't seem to match gold, Obama policy.


When it was high years ago, gasoline consumption
took a nosedive, about 20% in a month.
Gasoline prices collapsed soon after.
Isn't that interesting.

Posted by: Dennis_H_N.J.

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/09/12 12:31 PM

So your saying that Yahoo lies??
Posted by: New_Climber

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/10/12 06:01 AM

I don't see why picking the 5yr chart is cherry picking...why is it one can't look at past data to decide on what future data might be?? Do you make investments blindly?? Or do you look at past data?? Or do you have a way of looking into the future to determine what will happen?? The only thing I can agree I am guilty of is that I am only looking at one chart and making a comparison...but I don't even think that is true, being I also shop for food and buy energy (electric)...all have also gone up??

I am also not sure which chart you are looking at..and saying they don't match...5yr gas compares to 5yr gold??

Starting in 2009 they have the same moving avg up...both have the same dip at the same time in 2011. The move sideways in 2009 for gas was due to economy factors...then as it digested, it continues it move up with gold? Of course there is always corrections in the market...may problem right now is that the president says one thing, the market analyst says something else??

So please answer the above question??? Is yahoo and cnbc analyst lying?? If they are, why is not the president also not telling the whole true..

I do thank you for the gas historical chart….kind of secures my belief that something NOT market driven is pushing the oil/gas market. Why did it spike in 2008, there was no shortage, but the housing and banking sectors were about to collapse….who needed to get out of these collapsing sectors??? Maybe the banks that are too big to fail needed to save at least something??? Now it is driving up again??? Why?? Still no shortage, in fact the other way around, we are using less yet prices are driving up just like 2008… could be Iran? But if past data shows anything…I would not bet on that….

oh wait a minute, am I allowed to look at past data? grin
Posted by: JimTheTinkerer

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/10/12 06:45 AM


Wow...you're cherry-picking even as you look.
To me it just makes your questions look delirious.
I can't answer a psychosis. Nobody can.
If you've formed the opinion that gas prices
always go up when consumption goes down
by convenient editing, only you can answer yourself.
If you pre-date, post-date, chuck all but 2 years
of gasoline, keep 5 for gold in order to keep direction,
that only makes you bear witness against yourself.

You will spindle, fold, bend, and mutilate facts
to your service. I cannot answer that. Nobody ever can.
Maybe certain professionals, but definitely not
economists. People who look at the mind.
Posted by: Bob_Q

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/10/12 07:29 AM

Cherry picking. That phrase is used quite often,did you notice?
Could be an underlying problem there. Hmmmm!
Posted by: Able_Dog

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/10/12 10:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Bob_Q
Cherry picking. That phrase is used quite often,did you notice?
Could be an underlying problem there. Hmmmm!


Quote:
Cherry picking, suppressing evidence, or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position. It is a kind of fallacy of selective attention, the most common example of which is the confirmation bias.


Under the circumstances, a good choice of words. Whether or not it's accurate or not has little to do with the idea that he's trying to convey. hmmmmmmmmm.
Posted by: JimTheTinkerer

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/10/12 11:06 AM

Originally Posted By: Bob_Q
Cherry picking. That phrase is used quite often,did you notice?
Could be an underlying problem there. Hmmmm!


Sure right there.

It is defined as picking only the small
bit of information that is convenient to your POV.

You know about that?
Posted by: New_Climber

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/10/12 09:06 PM

Bottom line....

The CNBC analyst says the problem with gas prices is reduced consumption....

The President says a way to stop raising gas prices is to reduce consumption..

The way I see it...that these are contradicting statements???

yes or no...or...

so I ask…do you think the analyst on CNBC are stating the facts??? and….. Is the president stating the facts from his advisors??
Posted by: Able_Dog

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/11/12 04:02 PM

Quote:
bama's EPA is probably the worse in recent times and is causing some of these price spikes with the shutting of refineries due to their thug-like tactics. And over regulation.


And they're causing higher prices in Canada, England, Germany, Japan and other countries?
Posted by: New_Climber

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/12/12 03:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Able_Dog
Quote:
bama's EPA is probably the worse in recent times and is causing some of these price spikes with the shutting of refineries due to their thug-like tactics. And over regulation.


And they're causing higher prices in Canada, England, Germany, Japan and other countries?


Yes, very possible and if his EPA tactics are causing issues, then higher prices a crossed the world...remember, most of the energy prices are traded on the global market. So, if refineries are shutting down in the US, it takes supply off the market.

But then I guess that would go all the way back to....Is there a supply shortage in the first place...or does the current price more reflect market manipulation but have no fundamentals at all.
Posted by: Able_Dog

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/12/12 04:41 PM

Isn't the decreased demand explanation contrary to supply and demand rules? The supply has not gone down. It's not a free market system.
Posted by: EAP

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/12/12 05:07 PM

I love it.

Justify our prices using other countries' prices. The fact is there is little comparison.

Oil has become more globally influenced but that does not fully explain our woes.

When President Bush announced a lifting and easing of drilling restrictions when oil was $147 barrel the price dropped immediately by $9 a barrel. What did that have to do with the price of gas in Europe? [Might've brought the cost down there as well to some extent too.]

And that substantial price drop was the start of a continuous drop in the price of oil and gas.

When government restricts the supply the prices go up, It is just as simple as that.

Obama and the democrats in the Senate are just grandstanding over the Keystone pipeline.

Environmental fools said the Caribou would be endagered with
the Alaskan oil pipeline 40 years ago.

Truth is they enjoy the pipeline because it provides a source of shelter and shade they heretofore had not enjoyed previously.
Posted by: Able_Dog

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/12/12 05:17 PM

I'm sure glad you love it because the people who know about oil price say it's a global market and the president of the United States cannot control the price.

BTW did you see the news release last week that Obama was responsible for the Titanic sinking?
Posted by: EAP

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/12/12 05:48 PM

Have you spoken to the former head of the Shell Oil Company?

John Hofmeister, former CEO of Shell Oil states that the "Obama" administration has been "anti-drilling" and get this: oil production today is only 7 million barrels per day when it used to be 10 million per day.

Obviously the Obama administration has been lying when it says that oil preoduction the past three years havs never been higher.

The FACT of the matter is that the cost of a gallon of gasoline is $2.00 more now than it was when Barack Obama became president.

Sources : Fox News and Wake Up America

Obama is as much responsible for the sinking of the Titanic as Bush was for blowing up the World Trade Center buildings.

Yeah right.
Posted by: grizzly

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/12/12 05:53 PM


... grin
Posted by: EAP

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/20/12 04:20 PM

Well, I was just talking witha friend over the weekend about gas. He drives a gasoline tanker. He said that gas was around $5 a gallon around Disney World.

I asked him if he thought it would be April before the price crossed the $4 threshhold around these parts?

Well I am not happy to announce that effective today: Gas is $3.99.9 a gallon around here. In my book that is close enough.

So will it peak at $5 around here before it declines? Or worse than that?

I have been saying for months that it will be the highest we have ever seen it. I hate being right when it costs people money.

Thank you President Obama. You did it again. Or not, depending on how you are looking at it.

TEN MORE MONTHS! TEN MORE MONTHS! NOT FOUR MORE YEARS! eek
Posted by: grizzly

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/20/12 04:29 PM


...yeah he loves this. figures we'll buy little electric puddle jumpers for 40 grand and save ourselves and the world. pathetic plan indeed.
Posted by: JimTheTinkerer

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/20/12 07:20 PM

Originally Posted By: EAP
I love it.


When President Bush announced a lifting and easing of drilling restrictions when oil was $147 barrel the price dropped immediately by $9 a barrel.


Seems pretty small when you look at the charts.
Also seems like a tiny time slice.
An Iranian protest over egg prices can change it
faster than that.


Posted by: JimTheTinkerer

Re: Gas prices goin up... - 03/20/12 07:31 PM

Quote:


The FACT of the matter is that the cost of a gallon of gasoline is $2.00 more now than it was when Barack Obama became president.



If you pick the inaugural date.

If you look at the price history under GWB the
last 3 years, it went to a price higher than it is today!
And that's before inflation adjustment.

http://gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx

Now that's something Obama didn't achieve.
Makes the "announcement and immediate drop"
look pretty useless, too.

Neither guy had much to do with the price.