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#447791 - 04/10/08 10:30 AM
Re: The Ford Boycott ...
[Re: Ernie]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 12/04/01
Posts: 30218
Loc: Québec, Canada
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Here! This should help to close the topic. From AFA's website : "These organizations offer hope for healing from ...homosexuality"I wonder if their list of members include anyone I know.... no particular reason, just curious.
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Why did I post this?
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#447792 - 04/10/08 10:35 AM
Re: The Ford Boycott ...
[Re: HeatPro]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 11037
Loc: The HEARTland - Ohio
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Quote:
When Clinton was asked if he had sex with that person, his best answer of 'It's none of your business.' would have killed the problem right then and there, as the private acts would have had no impact on being Commander-in-Chief telling a polite fib because he wouldn't have answered.
Don't ask, don't tell? 
Well someone asked and he told. And he should have. The President of the United States serves the citizens publicly. What he does when he was not, or no longer is the prez may be more open to debate. When in office, with few exceptions, the business of the president is also the business of the people.
Suppose Richard Nixon said the same thing about the Watergate Tape recordings? It was his personal business of recording his conversations. Or was it? Some presidents chose to tape, while others did not. There was no rule or mandate requiring such. However, I digress.
And to say that his private acts had no bearing on being commander-in-chief could be debated. It would've depended on the timing and how he responded. In all likelihood, it mattered little. However other world leaders have lost battles and wars because their inferiors were too timid to approach them at critical times for fear of "disturbing the boss" when he was in a compromised position - of his own doing. Hitler is one example that comes to mind.
More importantly, at least from this observer, is the role model qualities a president evokes, especially on the nation's young. What can one say to a youngster (concerning an act that might be illegal, unethical, or immoral,) who wishes to copy a similar act as the president, invoking the claim, "well, if the president can do it, why can't I"?
Nevermind the consequences of their actions. Or for that matter the President's.
There seems to be two sides to every story. One is right and the other wrong. Can one overlook (all) the gray?
P.S. Concerning your quote about none of your business, what about the Monica factor? She had no say?
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Ho! Ho! Ho! Who'd Be An Easter Bunny at Christmas?
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#447794 - 04/10/08 10:48 AM
Re: The Ford Boycott ...
[Re: EAP]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/30/04
Posts: 28022
Loc: South New Jersey
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Ah, yes. I can understand your point. If there had been some serious situation with the country, the several minutes with Monica could have been critical. That is a reason to give disapproval of Presidents spending too much time sitting in the bathroom or even engaging too long his own wife in the bedroom during times of national emergency. Cameras to monitor a President's behavior at all times seems prudent, so there could be no possible complaint by anyone that supervision of sex is not the business of the Congress. As the President is constantly the Commander-in-Chief, even during times when there is no declared war to call him to duty, making sure that there is always a national crisis is one way to make sure that he doesn't spend personal time.
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Friends tell people how to live past 60.
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#447795 - 04/10/08 11:52 AM
Re: The Ford Boycott ...
[Re: Ernie]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 42126
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this quote and others through out the bible are why bible studiers are saying that Paul may have been gay. yet, jesus condemned him not. Quote:
Romans 7:18 ````````Paul``````` For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
bob: old science and new science is beginning to prove that gays ARE born that way. tell me, when did you decide to be straight?
regarding the schools. no one is teaching right or wrong about gays or how to be gay (as if they could). if anything, they are telling kids that they are out there and no different than you or i. you can't ignore millions of people, anymore than folks can ignore the fact that blacks, chinese, etc, are out there and no different than you or i, which they tried to do in the past. do you think, not mentioning it, makes it not so.
as i said, ur a good man bob, i like you, but your religion is blinding you a bit too much, as to what is real and what is fantasy. the book is 2000yrs old, we don't live in that place anymore. we know more now. taking the book literally is dangerous and causes hatred and wars.
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#447796 - 04/11/08 01:31 PM
Re: The Ford Boycott ...
[Re: FranS]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 09/23/03
Posts: 11037
Loc: The HEARTland - Ohio
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Quote:
this quote and others through out the bible are why bible studiers are saying that Paul may have been gay. yet, jesus condemned him not.
Quote:
Romans 7:18 ````````Paul``````` For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
bob: old science and new science is beginning to prove that gays ARE born that way. tell me, when did you decide to be straight?
regarding the schools. no one is teaching right or wrong about gays or how to be gay (as if they could). if anything, they are telling kids that they are out there and no different than you or i. you can't ignore millions of people, anymore than folks can ignore the fact that blacks, chinese, etc, are out there and no different than you or i, which they tried to do in the past. do you think, not mentioning it, makes it not so.
as i said, ur a good man bob, i like you, but your religion is blinding you a bit too much, as to what is real and what is fantasy. the book is 2000yrs old, we don't live in that place anymore. we know more now. taking the book literally is dangerous and causes hatred and wars.
Point #1: I have not heard anyone speculate Paul may have been homosexual. Another wicked twist (it appears) that foists all kinds of confusion on mankind.
Point #2: The school is still out on the claim homosexuality is genetic. Again, see point #1 (sentence 2)for explanation. It can be as presposterous as the global warming claims that are now be paraded as "climate change" because (many of) these false purveyors of prophecy know they are on the wrong track. Keep 'em (the public) always guessing is their mantra. [sidenote: "global" temperature has remained constant the past ten years - how are things warming "worldwide"? Climate change is a better expression, but to claim the world is getting warmer as a whole just isn't true.]
Point #3. I like you too Fran. And I respect you and your thoughts. It seems to me that if anything, it is the way of the world that is doing the blinding of society. It is NOT the Bible. Like the old adage, Guns don't kill, people kill, a similar thing could be said for a Book.
The good Book explained the reason for the trouble the world is experiencing then and now and until the time of the end. People were NOT blind to the truth when there were two. It only happened after they chose to rebel and reject the truth. That is what we are dealing with and have to accept today. Would we behave differently today?
If people took the book more literally in its entirety rather than pulling loopholes (so-to-speak) out of it, we might experience less of the woes that are wreaked on the world today.
Sadly, ignorance is bliss. Or so it seems that way. To many. None of us happen to be perfect. However it seems that more investigation would be a good idea. By everyone.
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Ho! Ho! Ho! Who'd Be An Easter Bunny at Christmas?
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#447797 - 04/11/08 02:37 PM
Re: The Ford Boycott ...
[Re: EAP]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 42126
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sorry, ed, i found, but did not save, the info on paul on a RELIGIOUS WEBSITE, of all places. i wish i'd saved it. guess if i searched enough, i could find...so could you. when did you decide to be straight? did you have a choice? i like you too ed, remember the neighbor thing...however, i'm not ignorant, nor blind... 
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#447798 - 04/11/08 03:34 PM
Re: The Ford Boycott ...
[Re: EAP]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/30/04
Posts: 28022
Loc: South New Jersey
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Quote:
If people took the book more literally in its entirety rather than pulling loopholes (so-to-speak) out of it, we might experience less of the woes that are wreaked on the world today.
Sadly, ignorance is bliss. Or so it seems that way. To many. None of us happen to be perfect. However it seems that more investigation would be a good idea. By everyone.
This is another thinly-veiled appeal to not think about the content, just to accept what is said and study until the thoughts go away. A good example of the approach is Hillery, who can never come up with a solution or a statement of intent, just an appeal to have a committee study whatever again until people fawgedaboudit.
It really is a shame that people can't accept stars touching the ground, the horsemen of the apocalypse coming and stuff in Revelations as fact; but it might be a sign of not being a complete boob, nor a gullible hick accepting the ravings of a lunatic in prison trying to make a horror movie before film was invented.
Much of the Bible's purpose to produce royal rule is an example used for today's crisis- produced governance. Imaginary fears are created to move people to behave. Whether fear of after-death, arrival of the apocalypse, nuclear threat, or terrorist attacks, the government's income is produced. Ignorance is not only bliss, but eases unexamined governance.
Continue to tell everyone to suspend critical thinking and you will eventually get the society royalty wants - dumb-down.
_________________________
Friends tell people how to live past 60.
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#447799 - 04/11/08 04:33 PM
Re: The Ford Boycott ...
[Re: Wouldheart10]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 27380
Loc: Eagle, CO USA
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You make a flip reference to saints in your post. Let me tell you about them.
In the early days of Christianity, the outstanding leaders and possibly others were called saints. This title was applied without any authority but later the church fathers (leaders or writers) confirmed the titles. Still later the Popes confirmed the titles, and they have the authority. However, all that was a bit informal in that era, from what I read.
In more modern times, the title of saint was afforded only after some investigation, and that investigation could take several decades. Usually a sponsor (typically a bishop) for the proto-saint was selected and he gathered the data. Still later a saint was proclaimed only after it could be proven that he/she had performed at least two miracles AFTER death. Now that takes a lot more investigation to confirm that a miracle (usually healing) had occurred.
Pope John Paul II furthered the idea that there was a second class of saints, priests or bishops who had been martyred for their beliefs. There have been many of these in recent years.
I used the name St Paul, if only to distinguish him from, say, Paul Smith who may live down the street. Some Bibles list the four gospel writers as saints, and many churches of several denominations are called saint this or that. Our church is St Mary's, as an example. However, note that only the Roman Catholic Church names saints; no other church (or person) has the authority.
Does that make it clear to you?
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