or is it just that they are cutting back on their advertising market across the board and those publications were targeted for purely financial reasons, but the PR department decided to kill 2 birds with one stone and give the Fictional Perfect Family association what they wanted as well

Which is what I would have to guess...

"umm... yea... SURE.. we did it just for the reason you wanted... But.. like... dont tell anybody else OK?"

I love Ford cars, whatever their orientation...haha!
Sheesh, the things people spend their time
worrying about.

Here's one for Ford:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRjWtlpl2Bo

pull it to the bumper baby

Dora, I've read and pondered your post a number of times since reading it yesterday. And I can certainly relate to your "concept" as in a couple of ways, I've lived it and been the "recipient". So maybe that's exactly why I feel so strongly about the METHOD of discourse.

Regardless of the wrongs of the past, the history of various parties involved, the personal attacks are NOT justified, from either side of the fence.

And for other readers of this post, relative to my earlier "Psych 101" comment on projection, here are a couple of links that do a fair job of discussing this topic. Folks with even minor introspection capacity may find them interesting and/or insightful.

Link 1
Link 2

I'm thick, although I understand what projection is (after having been offhandedly been accused of it as a teen I looked it up then), I don't understand the relevance here.

The original statement was made in rejoice of another victory for the forces of the 'correct lifestyle'. It's as plain as the nose on your face. There's no other possible way to read it.


That said, agree or disagree, the guys IS entitled to his space here.

"Projection" relevance - Just something I kept thinking about as I read this thread initially. The fact that often people who react in what may be deemed an "excessive manner" are often projecting. NOT that I'm implying Bob is this way at all, but often people who are truly homophobic are this way because they fear they may have some of these same characteristics within themselves. There was a movie that exemplified this not too long ago... American Beauty... Neighbor girl's father was a staunch military guy (and homophobic), who at the end of the movie revealed himself.

And I guess I'm the thick one... I guess I missed Bob's real message and agenda, as I've stated repeatedly in this thread.

And once more my point is...

It's the METHOD OF DISCOURSE that I'm "defending"...

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That said, agree of disagree, the guys IS entitled to his space here.

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Bingo. And I think that's all Nestor and I are commenting on.

Aaah, well it seems my bit of tongue & cheek message has slipped past the mark and landed squarly were I'd of expected. Of course having empathy for people doesn't come natural for most. I view any discrimination as intolerable whether it be against gays, people of color or the elderly. Doesn't matter, wrong is wrong and stating facts is not a personal attack. Telling Bob Fleming he's a bigot and a hypocrit isn't an opinion, it's a fact. Believe me, I've kept my opinions outta this discussion. If some wanna view this as a personal attack, well, guess that depends on your perspective. I veiw it as making the world a better place.

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stating facts is not a personal attack

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As with projection, many people don't get that point. For many, just saying something that doesn't agree is an attack on their 'supremacy,' so a correction is a step beyond that. Many flame sequences have grown from that habit in this forum. Hopefully, for many, many a fact can be successfully dissolved by a good spray of testosterone.

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stating facts is not a personal attack. Telling Bob Fleming he's a bigot and a hypocrit isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

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No, you've got it bacward.

Stating that someone did something that they did is a fact. For example, stating that Nestor Kelebay posted this post on Sunday, April 6th, 2008 is a FACT.

Stating that Nestor Kelebay is a bigot and a hypocrite is an opinion.

In my opinion, Bob himself harbours no ill will against anyone. It is the teaching of his religion that obligates him to take the stands that he does; against homosexuality, against abortion, against gay marriage, etc.

Is one a bigot if their religion teaches that homosexuality is an "abomination in the eyes of God"? The old Testament tells Jews not to eat the meat of animals with split feet, and pigs fall into that catagory. Is a Jew unreasonable not to eat pork? Is a soldier that is following orders when he fires a cannon that kills the enemy committing "murder"? If one is following the instruction of a higher power, and that higher power teaches prejudice, does that make the individual guilty of prejudice? In my view, bigotry and prejudice are both personal acts. We ourselves behave with bigotry and prejudice against people whom we personally dislike. I don't think you can say that a right wing Catholic that follows the teaching of the Bible in denouncing homosexuality is guilty of bigotry or prejudice.

Wouldn't it be MORE hypocritical for Bob to recognize the Bible's condemnation of homosexuality on the one hand, and yet not speak out against it on the other? That is, is it less hypocritical to be a "Sunday Catholic"?

Or, Dora, do you know better than the Holy Scriptures in teaching us how to live our lives?

I think you're over your head on this one Dora. The Bible speaks out clearly against homosexuality and homosexual practice, and contradicting the Bible is professing to know more than God; a no win situation. If we all profess to follow the teachings of the Bible, we should all be speaking out against homosexuality. The Bible is bigoted and prejudice.

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Or, Dora, do you know better than the Holy Scriptures in teaching us how to live our lives?

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You forgot the smiley at the end of that statement.
A 1500 year old user's manual and book of who's who is NOT going to be the main instrument in determining how to lead a life. It's should give you multiple points of reference if your choice is to believe in the translations and accuracy of the original... if you do more power to you, but to teach how to live a life???
You have a brain and it comes with memory and processing power... use it or lose it.


Having said all that, Dora may only be over her head in your view because you took her words out of context.