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#438573 - 02/25/08 06:21 PM Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack
Ninat Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/25/08
Posts: 6
I bought a Kenmore Ultra Wash dishwasher in September of 2005. The model # is 665. It has been working fine until recently. Now, the dishes on the upper rack are not getting clean. I took apart the Feed Tube Assembly to make sure there was nothing blocking the water flow but it was clear. There are two holes where the Manifold slides into the Feed Tube. My thought is that the holes are not sealing properly (there is a rubber seal that flaps open but these stay slightly open) and because of that there is not enough water pressure created to spray the dishes on the top shelf. Does it seem like I am on the right track? My second thought is that there is something wrong with the pump. Everything on the bottom rack is clean and the dishes in the middle of the second shelf are clean too. It is only the dishes that are on the outer edge of the upper rack that are not clean. I would greatly appreciate any feedback.

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#438574 - 02/25/08 10:14 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: Ninat]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Hi,

Quote:

model # is 665




That is the beginning of a model#.
665.????????

jeff.

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#438575 - 02/26/08 03:23 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
Ninat Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/25/08
Posts: 6
Yes, the manual indicates the the last 4 numbers indicates the color. 665.1703 is the full model number.

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#438576 - 02/26/08 05:49 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: Ninat]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Quote:

the manual indicates




Except the full model# is on the appliance and not the manual.

Quote:

665.1703




66517032400 66517032401 66517032402 66517032403 66517033400 66517033401 66517033402 66517033403 66517034400 66517034401 66517034402 66517034403 66517039400 66517039401 66517039402 66517039403

jeff.

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#438577 - 02/27/08 08:57 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
Ninat Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/25/08
Posts: 6
Okay, the full model number is 665.17033402 this is off of the dishwasher. Any idea of what the problem might be?

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#438578 - 02/27/08 11:03 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: Ninat]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Hey, finally a full model#

Quote:

665.17033402




Whirlpool built Kenmore, two motors ( one for draining and one for washing ) sideways wash motor assembly style.

Quote:

the dishes on the upper rack are not getting clean.




If your water level in your dishwasher is fine ( near element ), and its still not pumping the water around, check the chopper blade and check valve rubber flapper inside the wash pump assy. Chopper blade may be clogged up, check valve rubber may be deteriated. If these all are ok, a new motor and pump assy may be required.



jeff.

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#438579 - 02/27/08 05:01 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Pages 20, 21 and 22 should help as well.

jeff.

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#438580 - 03/02/08 07:40 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
Ninat Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/25/08
Posts: 6
Just want to say thanks!!!! I cleaned the chopper blade area and my dishes are getting clean again. There was not a lot of stuff or anything huge blocking the area but what a difference it has made. Thanks.

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#438581 - 03/02/08 10:01 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: Ninat]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Thankx for the update

jeff.

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#438582 - 05/27/09 11:11 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
mneriv Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 43
How do I get to the chopper blade assembly? I took dishwasher out But don't want to take things apart with out instructions. Any where I can down load instructions

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#438583 - 05/27/09 01:57 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: mneriv]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Quote:

How do I get to the chopper blade assembly? I took dishwasher out But don't want to take things apart with out instructions. Any where I can down load instructions




Hi,

Your model# is.......?

jeff.

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#438584 - 06/08/09 10:01 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
betseeee Offline
first timer

Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1
Loc: NY
I have a Kenmore dishwasher (almost the same model, but 1603, not 1703) and was having this same problem. I googled last week, found this thread, and tonight my husband performed the recommended fix. I now have sparkly clean dishes again. Thank you, Jeff!

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#438585 - 06/09/09 06:31 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: betseeee]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Happy we could help

jeff.

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#438586 - 10/21/09 04:14 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: Ninat]
yahoot Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 2
I have an 18 mopnth old (bought in spring 2008) kenmore 665.13742k601 that was having this same problem. I used the directions in this thread, including especially the link to the service manual. I removed a massive amount of hard water stone, and voila, it is working like new. Thank you thank you.

One thing I noticed - the manual for the whirlpool on p 21 shows a "Foreign Object Protector" attached to the sump. My kenmore doesn't have that. Anyone know if that is a change because its
(a) a kenmore not a whirlpool or
(b) because mine is maybe a slightly different model or
(c)because they left is out when they built mine

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#438587 - 10/21/09 09:12 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: yahoot]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Hi,

Quote:

One thing I noticed - the manual for the whirlpool on p 21 shows a "Foreign Object Protector" attached to the sump. My kenmore doesn't have that. Anyone know if that is a change because its
(a) a kenmore not a whirlpool or
(b) because mine is maybe a slightly different model or
(c)because they left is out when they built mine




Appears to be a little newer style/model....your parts breakdown (with your model# ) doesn't that protector being used.

jeff.

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#438588 - 12/06/09 11:50 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
fwoodley Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 2
I did the clean out of the chopper and still have dishes comming out wit little grains of "stuff" on them. Put a camara inside the tub and the bottom arm is turning 30 RPM but the top arm is only turning about 10 RPM and it will come to a complete stop and sit there for a couple of seconds. My guess is it is time for a new dishwasher, do you feel this is the solution?

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#438589 - 12/06/09 10:28 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: fwoodley]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Quote:

I did the clean out of the chopper and still have dishes comming out wit little grains of "stuff" on them.




Checked the check valve flapper as well?




Check valve, pump sump

jeff.

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#438590 - 12/13/09 03:15 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
fwoodley Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 2
Yes, the flapper looked like new.

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#438591 - 12/13/09 06:32 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: fwoodley]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Quote:

Yes, the flapper looked like new.




Then it is likely a new motor and pump assy or new d/w time.

jeff.

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#438592 - 01/15/10 01:41 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
TomKerry Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/15/10
Posts: 2
Loc: Washington State, USA
Quote:





Check valve, pump sump

jeff.




Kenmore model 665.1737 here with the same problem - Upper rack not getting clean.
Checked the inner feed tube (the one that goes from bottom to top. No cracks, blockage or gaps.
Checked the connection ports & flaps where the middle sprayer arm connect to high/low ports in the back. Lower flap closes OK, upper flap stuck open due to wear, but this is the only position we use so that's OK.
Cleared some debris from inside the sump (below the foriegn object protector), but no fix.
Flapper valve checked and was good. (The black bit above the chopper in this picture - slips out with forceps/needlenose pliers)

Checked the chopper assembly (under the inlet protector that covers it - remove the screw and tug up on the screw-hole to remove the cover) and found the perforated plate was clogged with adhesive paper bits from jar labels that had peeled off during washing.
Enough bits had accumulated that the chopper blade shaft was broken, so we're ordering a replacement chopper assy (Whirlpool part number 8268383). Installing the replacement's going to be an interesting job.

To remove the broken chopper assy, used a pair of large tweezers to de-couple the white chopper shaft from the black motor shaft that's inside the housing (at the left-hand end of the white shaft and spring in the picture.) They just interlace together like linked fingers, and the spring was easy to compress.

Lessons learned:
Don't run labeled jars or cans thru the dishwasher.
Torx/Star drive scews work better with the correct tool, but a hex/allen wrench works in a pinch.

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#438593 - 01/15/10 09:36 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: TomKerry]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
G'day,

Quote:

Don't run labeled jars or cans thru the dishwasher.
Torx/Star drive scews work better with the correct tool, but a hex/allen wrench works in a pinch




Good tips!

jeff.

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#438594 - 01/21/10 04:15 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
kenwashmore Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Canada
Hi There,
Great tips in here! I too have the model 665.13742k601 and I took it apart to clean the chopper assy tonight. All went well. Could not believe all the junk that piled up in there!

I notice its pretty loud though when the pump is on and the chopper was a little gummed up.

Seems to be cleaning much better already, just wondering if its expected to be noisy.

Would anyone have the link to the 665.13742k601 service manual as well?

Thanks so much!


Edited by kenwashmore (01/21/10 04:16 PM)

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#438595 - 01/21/10 10:39 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: kenwashmore]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Hi,

There is no model specific manals...
Link for tech sheet
Similer style manual

jeff.

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#438596 - 01/22/10 01:18 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
thetraveller Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 8
This is the post I've been looking for, thanks.

I have a related question regarding the food chopper assembly: Is the blade supposed to move freely, independent of the white shaft? Or should it be engaged full time? Does the black driveshaft move forward when grinding is to take place? When assembled, I can rotate the black driveshaft and the blade does not turn.

I ask because I've had to clean out my screen and chopper area every 3 months so that the top rack will get clean. The blade only seems to engage when I push the white shaft forward so that the shapes match up.
Thanks

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#438597 - 01/22/10 02:28 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: thetraveller]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Shaft should move to enagage the chopper.


Quote:

Is the blade supposed to move freely, independent of the white shaft?




Freely yes, not independently.

jeff.

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#438598 - 01/22/10 02:35 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
thetraveller Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 8
Thanks, that must be my problem since the blade not only moves independently, but it wiggles freely also.

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#438599 - 01/22/10 05:11 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: thetraveller]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
If needed:


Chopper assembly

jeff.

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#438600 - 01/24/10 10:29 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: thetraveller]
TomKerry Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/15/10
Posts: 2
Loc: Washington State, USA
Quote:

Thanks, that must be my problem since the blade not only moves independently, but it wiggles freely also.




Since it's wiggling (floppy?) and not just spinning, your coupler teeth may be broken or not engaged. (I'm guessing)
The spring should be uncompressed, pushing the white shaft towards the motor.

At the top end of the white shaft in this picture, you can see that there are 4 white teeth. These need to interlock with the black driveshaft's teeth where that comes out of the motor.


The ends of the mating fingers are angle-cut, so they will self-align and engage with each other as long as they are on the same axis. The black shaft has a central guide pin in the center that mates with a hole in the end of white part.


My chopper shaft was broken like this one: You can see the teeth that engage with the black driveshaft. (The chopper blade, washer, screen, washer that goes between the metal "cap" and the spring are missing from this pic.)



Getting a new chopper in was a little fiddly. Wish I'd thought to take pictures.
Compressed the spring fully, and used needle nose pliers between the chopper blade and screen to keep it compressed and give me something to hold onto while sliding the chopper assembly down into its slot. (Not the big and inviting slot closest to the motor, the small groove that's next farthest away.)

The hole in the screen is larger than the while plastic shaft so while it's under compression, slide the screen as far UP on the shaft as you can. (Up is the fully round half of the screen, down is the U-shaped half with straight sides)

Then drop the whole assembly into it's slot, making sure it's fully seated on both sides and bottom. Hold the screen in place with one finger and slide the needle nose pliers out to release the spring and let the white plastic teeth engage the black driveshaft.

Hope this helps.

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#438601 - 05/08/10 12:18 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: kenwashmore]
Mike917 Offline
first timer

Registered: 05/07/10
Posts: 1
Loc: New Mexico
Hi

Was wondering if anyone had any ideas regarding the noise problem. My Kenmore stopped cleaning the upper rack and went searching for an obstruction. Found it where everyone else did (if you think this is annoying try pulling chunks of debris out of every hole in every spray arm every three months like I had to with my last one) and the dishwasher's cleaning like new. The only problem is that it's now extraordinarily noisy. I expected it to be a little less silent since I had been having so little water flow but this is not water noise, more like a loud buzzing. I first thought I had not put things back together correctly so I pulled it apart and reassembled but got the same results. I have a hard time imagining what I could have done in cleaning out the inlet protector to mess things up so badly. Is it possible that something was damaged by having that inlet clogged up and now that there's no obstruction and water is flowing freely the damage is more evident?

Thanks for any help.

Mike

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#438602 - 05/08/10 06:26 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: Mike917]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Hi,

Quote:

Is it possible that something was damaged by having that inlet clogged up and now that there's no obstruction and water is flowing freely the damage is more evident?




Sure.
Motor, pump, chopper....would have to be investigated.

jeff.

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#438603 - 05/19/10 09:22 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
Fixitchik Offline
first timer

Registered: 05/19/10
Posts: 1
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I had the same problem with my dishwasher and came across this site. With your wonderfully detailed instructions and pictures, I, a housewife, was able to fix it myself! Whoohoo! We were about to go out this weekend and buy a new one! You saved us HUNDREDS of dollars! Who knew all I needed to do was clean all the junk out of the screen? I am so proud of myself! Thanks again!

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#438604 - 05/19/10 07:09 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: Fixitchik]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Thankx for letting us know!

jeff.

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#438605 - 06/13/10 01:56 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: Mike917]
kenwashmore Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Hi

Was wondering if anyone had any ideas regarding the noise problem. My Kenmore stopped cleaning the upper rack and went searching for an obstruction. Found it where everyone else did (if you think this is annoying try pulling chunks of debris out of every hole in every spray arm every three months like I had to with my last one) and the dishwasher's cleaning like new. The only problem is that it's now extraordinarily noisy. I expected it to be a little less silent since I had been having so little water flow but this is not water noise, more like a loud buzzing. I first thought I had not put things back together correctly so I pulled it apart and reassembled but got the same results. I have a hard time imagining what I could have done in cleaning out the inlet protector to mess things up so badly. Is it possible that something was damaged by having that inlet clogged up and now that there's no obstruction and water is flowing freely the damage is more evident?

Thanks for any help.

Mike




Mike did you find out what the issue was?

Jeff, I'm running into excessive noise as well. Its a loud constant buzzing as well as some grinding sounds. Cleaned the Chopper again and its still in good shape. Wondering what else I can do to investigate?

Thanks.

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#438606 - 06/13/10 07:56 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: kenwashmore]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Quote:

I'm running into excessive noise as well




Bad motor?

Quote:

Its a loud constant buzzing as well as some grinding sounds. Cleaned the Chopper again and its still in good shape




Nothing hard in there like a bone or such?
During the wash or drain?

jeff.

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#438607 - 06/14/10 01:04 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
Holmesuser01 Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 1480
Loc: Asheville, NC USA
I have a KitchenAid version of this dishwasher. My unit was making ungodly noise while running. There was nothing in the chopper, and nothing caught in anything.

The problem was the motor itself. The motor shaft seal behind the impeller itself was leaking, and ruined the front bearing on the motor. The guys at the parts store told me that this is a common problem with these Whirlpools.

Replacement of the motor/impeller was the cure. It was not that difficult, and the machine is very quiet now. Sometimes, I cant even hear it running.

The new motor assembly came with a new motor start capacitor, too.


Edited by Holmesuser01 (06/14/10 01:05 PM)

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#438608 - 06/15/10 05:57 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
kenwashmore Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Quote:

I'm running into excessive noise as well




Bad motor?

Quote:

Its a loud constant buzzing as well as some grinding sounds. Cleaned the Chopper again and its still in good shape




Nothing hard in there like a bone or such?
During the wash or drain?

jeff.




Maybe I'll take a A/V of when its running and send you the link, its really noisy. Cleaned the chopper out its clean and is moving as it should.

The noise happens when its in between washing and draining. Once the awful noise finally stops, the drain pump kicks in and it sounds fine.

Also, I've opened the door when that noise is happens and its always when there is no water in the tub, so its seems like its in the "chopper" part of the cycle maybe?


Edited by kenwashmore (06/15/10 05:58 AM)

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#438609 - 06/15/10 06:40 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: kenwashmore]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Quote:

The noise happens when its in between washing and draining. Once the awful noise finally stops, the drain pump kicks in and it sounds fine




Quote:

I've opened the door when that noise is happens and its always when there is no water in the tub




Should be water in the d/w "when" the draining starts....make sure the drain hose is not too low and make sure if the drain goes through the floor make sure it is not a too long of a drop down and sucking the water out too early.

jeff.

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#438610 - 06/15/10 03:38 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
kenwashmore Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Quote:

The noise happens when its in between washing and draining. Once the awful noise finally stops, the drain pump kicks in and it sounds fine




Quote:

I've opened the door when that noise is happens and its always when there is no water in the tub




Should be water in the d/w "when" the draining starts....make sure the drain hose is not too low and make sure if the drain goes through the floor make sure it is not a too long of a drop down and sucking the water out too early.

jeff.




It drops through the floor about a foot and then goes sideways across to the drain. I'll check inside to make sure the hose is still upright on the washer itself. Anything else I can do to make it higher?

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#438611 - 06/15/10 07:45 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: kenwashmore]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Quote:

I'll check inside to make sure the hose is still upright on the washer itself




Good!

Quote:

Anything else I can do to make it higher?




Loop over the d/w first or clamp it up high before it goes through the floor.

jeff.

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#438612 - 06/18/10 06:29 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: Ninat]
Aspen_Mathew Offline
newbie

Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 2
Loc: Michigan, U.S.
I think that their is nothing to worry about, their may some small thing that needs to be replaces. You can get it checked by an electrician or the service man of that company. You can also get some Dishwasher Accessories that you may require to make it work. I hope that you get it fixed soon.

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#438613 - 06/20/10 09:20 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: Aspen_Mathew]
kenwashmore Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Canada
I raised the drain hose up about 20' on the back of the washer and it seems to be running better, however that awful noise is still persistent but not as long.

Look for a youtube video of the noise later...would love to get this resolved.

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#438614 - 06/20/10 11:02 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: kenwashmore]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Quote:

I raised the drain hose up about 20' on the back of the washer and it seems to be running better, however that awful noise is still persistent but not as long.





We must be on the right track then.

jeff.

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#438615 - 06/21/10 04:44 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
kenwashmore Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Quote:

I raised the drain hose up about 20' on the back of the washer and it seems to be running better, however that awful noise is still persistent but not as long.





We must be on the right track then.

jeff.




Well this morning it sat there for at least 5-7mins making this noise again. I made a youtube video below. As you can see the tub is bone dry while this is happening. It washes and drains just fine. But this noise cannot be normal! Checked the chopper and it looks good....regardless it doesn't explain the dry tub.

Dishwasher noise


Edited by kenwashmore (06/21/10 06:33 PM)

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#438616 - 06/21/10 06:57 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: kenwashmore]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Certainly -sounds- like something rubbing/hitting something like the pump impellor....check for a foreign objets in the drain pump, hose leading to the drain pump ( not the wash pump ).

jeff.

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#438617 - 06/22/10 03:39 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
Holmesuser01 Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 1480
Loc: Asheville, NC USA
Did you physically remove the motor from the unit? One bolt, then the motor turns CCW to release. Sounds like something is caught in the pump itself!

My old motor made alot more noise than yours is now.

If you pull the motor, you can have a look at the bearings, and see if there is evidence of water leaking around the back of the seal.

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#438618 - 06/22/10 04:38 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: Holmesuser01]
kenwashmore Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Did you physically remove the motor from the unit? One bolt, then the motor turns CCW to release. Sounds like something is caught in the pump itself!

My old motor made alot more noise than yours is now.

If you pull the motor, you can have a look at the bearings, and see if there is evidence of water leaking around the back of the seal.




I pulled everything out tonight and I didn't notice any obstruction or bad movement on the wash or drain motor. I'm really stumpted here. It drains and fills fine, but I just don't understand how it washes fine and then has no water left in the tub.

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#438619 - 06/22/10 06:47 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: kenwashmore]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Quote:

but I just don't understand how it washes fine and then has no water left in the tub.




Still syphoning somehow.
That noise still reminds me of something hitting something...like a toothpic or such.

jeff.

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#438620 - 06/22/10 07:43 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
kenwashmore Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Quote:

but I just don't understand how it washes fine and then has no water left in the tub.




Still syphoning somehow.
That noise still reminds me of something hitting something...like a toothpic or such.

jeff.




When I put in the dishwasher I just tapped it into the sink drain that goes downstairs. I don't think its vented at all. That wouldnt have anything to do with it would it?

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#438621 - 06/23/10 06:45 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: kenwashmore]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Quote:

I don't think its vented at all. That wouldnt have anything to do with it would it?




Plumbing vacuum could suck the water out.

jeff.

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#438622 - 06/23/10 04:37 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
kenwashmore Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Canada
It drains into the basement and has its own trap - then goes across to meet the sink drain which is also below the trap.





As I mentioned above I also routed the drain hose at least 20'' up the washer before heading through the floor. Could it still cause siphoning? If so what can I do to resolve this?

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#438623 - 06/23/10 07:20 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: kenwashmore]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Nice pics!
Odd looking drain set up

Quote:

As I mentioned above I also routed the drain hose at least 20'' up the washer before heading through the floor. Could it still cause siphoning? If so what can I do to resolve this?




Try making sure the hose to to the underneath of the counter before going down through the floor.



jeff.

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#438624 - 06/23/10 07:33 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
kenwashmore Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Nice pics!
Odd looking drain set up

Try making sure the hose to to the underneath of the counter before going down through the floor.


jeff.




Not sure what you mean? Right now the hose goes up the back of the dishwasher and loops and back down about 20'' and then through the floor to those pics.


Edited by kenwashmore (06/23/10 07:35 PM)

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#438625 - 06/24/10 06:22 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: kenwashmore]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Quote:

Not sure what you mean?




With what?

Quote:

Right now the hose goes up the back of the dishwasher and loops and back down about 20'' and then through the floor to those pics




20" may not be enough, go right up to the underneath of the counter before going down through the floor.

jeff.

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#438626 - 06/28/10 04:14 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
AwsumO Offline
newbie

Registered: 06/28/10
Posts: 2
Loc: Wahnapitae, Ontario, Canada
Hi everyone!! I am new to this forum and glad I found it.

I was just researching a similar problem and came across this thread and I must say it is the most informative I have read!! Not to mention the most helpful.

I found the problem of a clogged chopper a couple years ago on my Kenmore Ultra Wash (sorry I don't have the model# on me but it is identical to the pictures I am seeing). I also had to clean it out every once in a while when I noticed the top rack not getting cleaned.

My problem now is that it gets clogged quite often and the there seems to be some type of fiber plugging the holes which prevents food bits from being pushed through and then it clogs. Has anyone else had this issue? Might it be something wearing out? Rubbing and shredding something? Sorry I did not take a picture but it looks kind of like dryer lint. I can't find anything in the dishwasher, we don't put anything other than dishes in it, no labels or glue from containers, and this has been happening for a while which makes me think something is wearing because something that was dropped inside should have made it's way through by now and not keep plugging over and over.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance for the help!!
O.

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#438627 - 06/28/10 08:05 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: AwsumO]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Food lint looks similier/like clothing lint.
Also check water temp ( closer to 140F is better ) because if the soap isn't desolved properly any food bits will not be held in suspension and drained away.
Chopper may be damaged and not doing it's full job.

jeff.

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#438628 - 06/29/10 09:16 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
AwsumO Offline
newbie

Registered: 06/28/10
Posts: 2
Loc: Wahnapitae, Ontario, Canada
Thanks, I'll check on the water temp. I wondered the same because we were using the "puck" type soap and maybe it had something to do with not heating up enough and dissolving. Mid wash I opened the door and there seems to be lots of heat but I will check with a thermometer to be sure. We have since switched back to a liquid soap.

When the screen has been freshly cleaned the dishes are sparkling. Sometimes it only takes about a week to clog up! The fibers seem to be really caught up in the screen holes and the chopper appears fine. Should the blades on the chopper be sharp? It seems to me that it just crams and mashes the food through.

Thanks again for all your help!!

P.S. I have never actually heard of food lint. If that is what I got it sure is excessive. I'll take some pics next clogging.

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#438629 - 06/30/10 06:40 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: AwsumO]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Quote:

Should the blades on the chopper be sharp?




Not overly...more smushes the food down.

jeff.

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#438630 - 07/08/10 05:37 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
kenwashmore Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Quote:

Not sure what you mean?




With what?

Quote:

Right now the hose goes up the back of the dishwasher and loops and back down about 20'' and then through the floor to those pics




20" may not be enough, go right up to the underneath of the counter before going down through the floor.

jeff.





Hey Jeff - I got a hose extension and ran the drain all the way to the top of the dishwasher, across, and back down through the floor. So its nice and high now.

Its still doing the noise buts its more intermittent. I'm not sure what to do next, unless the pump is shot. That shouldn't explain how it gets bone dry in the tub though.

Would it still need a vent being that raised up?



Edited by kenwashmore (07/08/10 05:53 PM)

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#438631 - 07/08/10 07:17 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: kenwashmore]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Quote:

I got a hose extension and ran the drain all the way to the top of the dishwasher, across, and back down through the floor. So its nice and high now.

Its still doing the noise buts its more intermittent




Get a pail/bucket/garbage can...run the hose into that instead of down stairs to see what happens.

jeff.

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#438632 - 07/09/10 07:14 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
kenwashmore Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Quote:

I got a hose extension and ran the drain all the way to the top of the dishwasher, across, and back down through the floor. So its nice and high now.

Its still doing the noise buts its more intermittent




Get a pail/bucket/garbage can...run the hose into that instead of down stairs to see what happens.

jeff.




I'll throw the can downstairs and see what happens during the cycle.

I assume nothing should be draining out until the pump kicks in?

I'm wondering if the drain trap that is installed may be causing a sphioning action? This is turning out to be a fun project


Edited by kenwashmore (07/09/10 07:26 AM)

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#438633 - 07/09/10 12:38 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: kenwashmore]
Holmesuser01 Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 1480
Loc: Asheville, NC USA
Any chance the OP needs a syphon breaker of some kind?

My DW drain line goes out and loops up to the countertop before going thru the cabinet side into the disposer. Mine has no water going to the disposer until the drain pump kicks in, then it gushes!

I'm still wondering about the bearing on the wash motor. My Kitchenaid was used when I got it, and the previous owner told me the noise the motor made got louder and louder over several years. She decided not to fix it, but replace it (with a plastic Electrolux!) Im thoroughly happy with this DW, and now that its slight problems are fixed, it does an excellent job cleaning!


Edited by Holmesuser01 (07/09/10 12:41 PM)

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#438634 - 07/09/10 06:49 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: kenwashmore]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Quote:

I'll throw the can downstairs and see what happens during the cycle




Upstairs.

Quote:

I assume nothing should be draining out until the pump kicks in?




Any standing water in the hose will drain out.

Quote:

I'm wondering if the drain trap that is installed may be causing a sphioning action?




Syphone break maybe.

jeff.

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#438635 - 07/10/10 08:16 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
kenwashmore Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Canada
Quote:


I'll throw the can downstairs and see what happens during the cycle




Hi Jeff - I'm trying it this morning with the drain off and it just draining into a pail downstairs. Not a drop of water has came out during the cycle!

Quote:

Syphone break maybe.





What's a syphone break?


Do I need to have a trap installed?

Also, does it matter what the slope is of the drain after the trap? I.e should it be straight down? Currently its goes sideways for a while and then down.

From what I'm seeing its the trap/drain setup.


Edited by kenwashmore (07/10/10 08:28 AM)

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#438636 - 07/10/10 08:44 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: kenwashmore]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Quote:

I'm trying it this morning with the drain off and it just draining into a pail downstairs. Not a drop of water has came out during the cycle!




Why? Kinked the hose?

Quote:

What's a syphone break?




Helps to prevent water from syphoning out...can also help to prevent water from flowing the wrong direction.

An EG of one kind...


Siphon break assembly

Quote:

Do I need to have a trap installed?




A drain trap is always the best idea.

Quote:

does it matter what the slope is of the drain after the trap? I.e should it be straight down? Currently its goes sideways for a while and then down




Both -could- be bad...longer run or heavy pull can suck the water out of something above.

jeff.

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#438637 - 07/11/10 08:13 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
kenwashmore Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Quote:
I'm trying it this morning with the drain off and it just draining into a pail downstairs. Not a drop of water has came out during the cycle!

Why? Kinked the hose?




Nope what I meant is that no water siphoned out. It only came out when the drain kicked on. Which is how it should be



Quote:

Quote:
Do I need to have a trap installed?



A drain trap is always the best idea.

Quote:
does it matter what the slope is of the drain after the trap? I.e should it be straight down? Currently its goes sideways for a while and then down



Both -could- be bad...longer run or heavy pull can suck the water out of something above.




From what I'm seeing I need to adjust the slope of trap/drain downstairs. Since I have the hose routed at the top of the counter and down I shouldn't need an air gap I would assume and it shouldn't sipon out.

Stay tuned.

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#438638 - 07/11/10 09:20 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: kenwashmore]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Quote:

Nope what I meant is that no water siphoned out. It only came out when the drain kicked on. Which is how it should be




And the noise was....gone, better, same?

jeff.

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#438639 - 07/12/10 04:54 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
kenwashmore Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Canada
Quote:

Quote:

Nope what I meant is that no water siphoned out. It only came out when the drain kicked on. Which is how it should be




And the noise was....gone, better, same?

jeff.




Completely gone. Check your private messages


Edited by kenwashmore (07/12/10 03:03 PM)

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#438640 - 07/12/10 09:06 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: kenwashmore]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
I saw the video.
Wonder if the pvc pipe can be run up where the corrigated hose is to above the floor and then attach the d/w drain to it...might help.

The renovation is a good idea, that would be a good time to correct that drain issue.

jeff.

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#438641 - 07/13/10 03:39 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
yahoot Offline
newbie

Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 2
I realize it might be considered a bit old fashioned, but wouldn't a simple air gap solve all this siphon trouble?

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#438642 - 07/13/10 03:58 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
kenwashmore Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Canada
Quote:

I saw the video.
Wonder if the pvc pipe can be run up where the corrigated hose is to above the floor and then attach the d/w drain to it...might help.

The renovation is a good idea, that would be a good time to correct that drain issue.

jeff.




I had it running again today (into the garbage can) and it seemed to siphon out about 10mins into the cycle. Cancelled the cycle and re-ran it and it seemed fine.

I'm thinking I may need an air gap or something as well.

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#438643 - 07/13/10 04:58 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: Holmesuser01]
gailz Offline
first timer

Registered: 07/13/10
Posts: 1
I've just registered so I can say thank you for the instructions, pictures, and access to the right Kenmore/Whirlpool manual!!! I dismantled enough of our dishwasher (the 665.1703,etc., that everyone has troubles with) with your help and a few trips to the store to get the right torx screwdrivers--and the glasses are sparkling once again! I am giddy with my success--thanks!

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#438644 - 07/13/10 07:27 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: yahoot]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Air gaps are normally not installed in Canadian plumbing.
Air gap, syphone break can all help...but the plumbing in question is a bit wishy-washy and should be corrected.

JMO!

jeff.

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#438645 - 07/13/10 07:28 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: gailz]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Happy we helped

jeff.

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#438646 - 07/14/10 05:21 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
kenwashmore Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 28
Loc: Canada
Quote:

the plumbing in question is a bit wishy-washy and should be corrected.

JMO!

jeff.




I couldn't agree more. That said I'm kinda stuck until we redo the kitchen next year and put it in a proper setup. What we do know:

Draining it into a tank downstairs makes it work dramatically better than tying into the kitchen sink below the trap.

Jeff: What do you suggest? Should I run ABS all the way across downstairs (and have a trap as well) and up into behind the DW? And then but an air gap above the connection? Or should I keep the existing setup and find a siphon break?

Again many thanks...I know things aren't "standard" at this point but I would've thought it'd be easy to stop the siphoning....considering I do have the hose looped to the top of the cabinet now.

Unless there is an issue with the DW itself?

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#438647 - 07/14/10 06:32 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: kenwashmore]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Quote:

Should I run ABS all the way across downstairs (and have a trap as well) and up into behind the DW? And then but an air gap above the connection?




I would think that would be a good try!

jeff.

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#438648 - 08/11/10 07:26 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
KFLODC Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/11/10
Posts: 2
Thanks for the very helpful information. One more question to help a newbie get started if you'd be so kind: in order to access the problematic filter and be able to clean it (and thus hopefully get the top rack cleaning again), I take it that I need to unscrew the feeder tube and lift out the lower spray arm, as shown at pp. 17-18 of this manual:
https://secured.whirlpool.com/Service/Sr...ILE/8178022.pdf However, to do so I need to remove the upper rack, and I can't figure out how to do so - it doesn't just lift off. My model number is 665.17039401, purchased in February 2005. Thanks

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#438649 - 08/11/10 08:16 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
KFLODC Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/11/10
Posts: 2
Thanks for the very helpful information. One more question to help a newbie get started if you'd be so kind: in order to access the problematic filter and be able to clean it (and thus hopefully get the top rack cleaning again), I take it that I need to unscrew the feeder tube and lift out the lower spray arm, as shown at pp. 17-18 of this manual:
https://secured.whirlpool.com/Service/Sr...ILE/8178022.pdf However, to do so I need to remove the upper rack, and I can't figure out how to do so - it doesn't just lift off. My model number is 665.17039401, purchased in February 2005. Thanks

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#438650 - 08/11/10 09:04 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: KFLODC]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Hi,

Quote:

to do so I need to remove the upper rack, and I can't figure out how to do so




Rack bar end cap/stop is removed to slide out the rack...


Stop, track

...should be a push in the middle to remove the end cap/stop.

jeff.

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#438651 - 10/13/10 05:21 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: AwsumO]
TomJD Offline
first timer

Registered: 10/13/10
Posts: 1
Loc: Connecticut, US
I was amazed to find this post from AwsumO on 6/28/2010 at 4:14pm describing the "exact" problem I'm having with our Kenmore dishwasher. That is, some sort of fiber is routinely clogging the holes in the food grinder. I thought it had to be something we were putting in the dashwasher, but after reading this posintg there must be some nother explantion (i.e. something wearing).

Has anyone identified a resoluton to this issue?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

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#438652 - 10/13/10 06:45 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: TomJD]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada
Quote:

That is, some sort of fiber is routinely clogging the holes in the food grinder




Often food lint...watch/be carefull what is put inside the d/w....scrape plates and such before loading ( no rinceing them ).

jeff.

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#756618 - 05/26/13 01:00 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: Ninat]
IowaHoodlum Offline
newbie

Registered: 05/26/13
Posts: 2
Hello! This is a great post. I am making progress on fixing my 66516882000 because of this post. I can't get the inlet protector off to see the chopper assembly. I have already removed the inlet protector screw, the foreign object protector, and the foreign object protector screw. Any ideas? I've been trying to pry it out but it's not budging.

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#756629 - 05/26/13 03:32 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: IowaHoodlum]
IowaHoodlum Offline
newbie

Registered: 05/26/13
Posts: 2
Okay, used a pliers to yank out the inlet protector. The chopper assembly fell apart immediately into the sump area. It looks from parts pages and videos that this assembly is supposed to stay together, so I ordered a new one. It's not clear to me from the pieces what happened to it. I'll reply again after I get the new assembly.

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#756631 - 05/26/13 03:53 PM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: IowaHoodlum]
jeff1 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Ont Canada

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#757175 - 05/31/13 11:11 AM Re: Kenmore Dishwasher not cleaning upper rack [Re: jeff1]
bobbie23 Offline
newbie

Registered: 05/31/13
Posts: 2
I had this problem with my dishwasher and I found that if I stopped putting large pans or pyrex dishes in the bottom that lean over, the water can get to the top rack. I am not a repairman, just a working housewife. This helped my problem.

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