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#428560 - 01/18/08 10:55 PM Old Williams Furnace Wall Heater problems
Nagel Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/18/08
Posts: 5
I have an old Williams double side wall furnace. It has a millivolt generator. Problem someone disconnected the thermostat and millivolt generator wires from the main ITT valve. I don't know which wires to hook up to the 4 terminals. Anyone with experience with these type of units that can tell me which wires to hook up to the terminals would be beneficial.
Thanks

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#428561 - 01/19/08 08:27 AM Re: Old Williams Furnace Wall Heater problems [Re: Nagel]
HeatPro Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/30/04
Posts: 28022
Loc: South New Jersey
You can be more helpful to your purpose by looking at the valve body and telling everyone you are asking what the terminals on the gas valve have as labels. Usually there are things like T where thermostats attach and P where powerpile attach. It's a LOT easier than trying to recall an ITT gas valve in memory from decades ago.
_________________________
Friends tell people how to live past 60.

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#428562 - 01/19/08 10:09 AM Re: Old Williams Furnace Wall Heater problems [Re: HeatPro]
Nagel Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/18/08
Posts: 5
The information that you stated is helpful to me. I will get the valve part number and markings and post them as soon as I can to help others in my behalf

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#428563 - 01/19/08 11:11 PM Re: Old Williams Furnace Wall Heater problems [Re: Nagel]
Nagel Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/18/08
Posts: 5
More information to support this problem. I checked the millivolt generator and it is operating properly. The millivolt valve it an ITT general control. The numbers markings are 78330 B678809 1/2 PSI GLP. I also notice that it has four terminals. The two on the left are marked Thermo and the two on the right are marked GEN. I reinstalled the millivolt generator and hooked up the leads to the GEN terminals. The thermostat that is hooked up to this unit is a LUX its markings are SIPIST T101141-PSM30 Heat Only 0.15 to 1.2 amps Max 30 volts AC. This would not appear to be a millivolt thermostat. So I disconnected it from the unit. Something else that I noticed is that the Thermostat terminals on the valve have a shorting strap attached across the two THERMO terminals. I tried to light the pilot without the shorting strap on and with it off and the pilot will still not stay lit. I hope that this provides enough information to assist everyone with my problem? Hope to hear back soon?


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#428564 - 01/20/08 12:19 AM Re: Old Williams Furnace Wall Heater problems [Re: Nagel]
HeatPro Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/30/04
Posts: 28022
Loc: South New Jersey
Now that you have identified which terminal marking to work with, you want to give assurances to whomever tells you to wire this unit:
1. Why the unit gas valve wires were disconnected:
a. how you know that the gas valve was good
b. how you know that the heat exchanger is good
c. how you know that the burner operation was proper

So you can assure them when and if the gas comes on that it will not send carbon monoxide through the home.

The up side for you is to get an old out-of-warrantee uninspected heater of undetermined age and safety condition to work.

The down side for the advisor is the end result of an unsupervised vocational course by correspondence that harms a family.

http://www.heatpro.us/service/dissatis.htm

With that set out in the open -
someone can take the responsibility
to guide you in the
'weekend hobby that kills.'

http://www.heatpro.us/forum/condescend.html
_________________________
Friends tell people how to live past 60.

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#428565 - 01/20/08 06:33 PM Re: Old Williams Furnace Wall Heater problems [Re: HeatPro]
Nagel Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/18/08
Posts: 5
First off the unit is not operable. Second, the gas main is always shut off on this unit unless being worked on to protect the occupants of this home. The owners of this unit stated that they had a new thermostat installed during a recent renovation to their home. There has been three other individuals that check this unit before I was asked to look at it. The millivolt generator was disconnected when I first looked at it. This is why I asked the forum about the correct connections before it was reinstalled. I can assure you that the thermostat is incorrect. It is not a millivolt thermostat as it should be. The millivolt generator was checked by placing a voltmeter on the input leads and heating the generator with a propane torch while it was out of the unit. The generator voltage ran up to and past 750 millivolts. I am comfortable that the generator is operating correctly. The owner stated that the wall unit worked last winter, but has been inoperable since the new thermostat was installed. The pilot light will not stay lit, which leads me to believe that the valve is not opening as it should to prime the pilot. I suspect that the valve is defective. Again I ask, can someone please tell me why there would be a shorting strap accross the Thermo on the valve's Thermo connections? Can someone also tell me where I can obtain a new millivolt valve for this unit?
Thanks for your input!

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#428566 - 01/20/08 07:04 PM Re: Old Williams Furnace Wall Heater problems [Re: Nagel]
HeatPro Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/30/04
Posts: 28022
Loc: South New Jersey
It is far more than obvious the heater is not operable. Why it is not operable and why it was prevented from working is the issue. Was that reason safety?

You, nor anyone else has to believe the owner: "The owner stated that the wall unit worked last winter, but has been inoperable since the new thermostat was installed." That's an old wheeze heard many times. Three different experienced gas techs working on it, now the fourth not getting it to work is not believable. Nobody removes gas control wires to install a new thermostat.

Unless there is a space issue to fit a replacement, any repairman would know that millivolt gas valves are available at most local plumbing/heating suppliers and Williams heaters and their parts are often sold there; thus experienced repairman can tell when somebody is faking experience.

http://americanhvacparts.com/Merchant2/m...ry_Code=gv-wall

If the pilot valve won't stay open when power is applied from the powerpile to the pilot solenoid terminals it is bad. The gas would have to be on for the pilot to work. The failure to pass gas to the pilot would also stop the main gas valve from letting gas past.

http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=85067

The above wiring "solution" leaves no safety devices in the circuit. A jumper on the thermo side of the valve bypasses any wire resistances to allow the powerpile to energize the valve:
"A jumper on the 'stat side of the gas valve and the heater roared to life" but there is no safety in the unit. Get someone who knows why they are tested for what they do.

There is no need to recall antique wiring when the unit is new enough to be safe and has a wiring diagram on the covers.

There is too much unbelievable in this thread, so people who've been there, done that, are unwilling to cause harm; their licenses are to do the opposite.

http://www.heatpro.us/forum/condescend.html

No need to continue this discussion. Call a pro who installs and works on wall heaters.
_________________________
Friends tell people how to live past 60.

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#428567 - 01/20/08 10:42 PM Re: Old Williams Furnace Wall Heater problems [Re: HeatPro]
Nagel Offline
newbie

Registered: 01/18/08
Posts: 5
There is no reason to question the integrity of the Christian owners when they stated that the unit was operable prior to their home renovation and the replacment of the thermostat. The informatation in this thread is as accurate as can be stated based on the unit information available. Three "PROS" looked at the unit prior to me. The first one stated that the millivolt generator was bad! It's obvious that it isn't and he obviously didn't test the generator as I did. The so called "PRO" stated that he had a new one in his shop. He charged them for a service call and never returned to finish the job. The second "PRO" stated that the valve was bad and had a new one in his shop. He also charged them for a service call and never came back to finish the job. The third "PRO" charge the owners $120 for a service call and couldn't figure out what was wrong with the unit. None of the three "PROs" stated to the owners that the unit had a safety issue. The unit is properly installed into the house! This much I know. Your response to call a "PRO" isn't always the best alternative. I came to this site to obtain answers to specific questions related to this unit based on the facts. Not to be lectured on the benefits of having a "PRO" come out to the house and trash the entire unit and charge the owners $2,500+ to do this! Thanks for your "PRO" fessional advice!

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#428568 - 01/21/08 05:43 AM Re: Old Williams Furnace Wall Heater problems [Re: Nagel]
HeatPro Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/30/04
Posts: 28022
Loc: South New Jersey
You are welcome for the advice.

The people you described who came to the house had already analyzed the situation. The valve was bad. Replacement valves for the old clunker are half as much in cost as a new unit at wholesale.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stor...26X-_-100059323

There is little incentive for them to fix it, as it is an unknown danger waiting to happen. It was most likely installed properly; but not maintained properly with the proper safety devices. Obviously NONE of the people so far, including YOU have told these good Christian people of the danger. Give it up and tell them to get a replacement unit that has warrantees and no question of proper parts.

If they have no money, YOU do them the favor of guaranteeing a loan so they can get a SAFE replacement. You mean well getting caught in the 'hero fix-it game' but you aren't aware of the dangers of bad burner and no safety controls. Not even a policeman can order a pro to repair a questionably-safe heater, as that would be demanding a possible death.
_________________________
Friends tell people how to live past 60.

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