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#421159 - 12/14/07 05:41 PM Zone Valve Stuck, How to replace? V8043E
programmergeek Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 6
Loc: nj
I have a 2 zone ratiator system and one zone is stuck on. The zone valves are a honeywell V8043E and the one that is stuck has no brand but looks the same. Anyhow it is stuck on I checked the motor and it does work it does swig the valve open and closed but the valve appears not to be returning since there is never any tension on the manual bypass lever. How can this be fixed or do I need to replace the unit.

If I need to replace the unit how do I replace it does the whole system need to be drained, I see no shut off valves. I'm thinking this mught be beyond me I have done plenty of plumming but this is my first ratiator system.

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#421160 - 12/14/07 05:55 PM Re: Zone Valve Stuck, How to replace? V8043E [Re: programmergeek]
HeatPro Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/30/04
Posts: 28022
Loc: South New Jersey
If you have a later model that allows the powerhead to be removed, take the two screws loose and remove the head then turn the internal lever stem manually to see if you can close the valve. If so then a new powerhead might do the trick.

If the older model that requires draining the system for repairs and refilling properly, save yourself some time and call a pro, as the valve interior might have failed, so buying a new powerhead might or might not do the job

An alternative is to go to the local plumbing/heating supplier and ask for the regional hydronic specialist to find out what he knows.
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#421161 - 12/14/07 08:49 PM Re: Zone Valve Stuck, How to replace? V8043E [Re: programmergeek]
Nestor_Kelebay Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/13/03
Posts: 8552
Programmergeek:

Further to what Heatpro said:

1. If that zone valve was built within the past 30 years, you should be able to replace the power head on it without draining the heating system.

2. MOST of the time, any problems with the operation of your Honeywell zone valve will just be due to internal friction in the motor. What happens is that friction causes the motor to get stuck in one position, and the thermostat applying voltage (or interrupting voltage) to the zone valve is not enough to get that motor turning again. What you need to do is simply pop the cover off the motor (I use the corner of a SHARP paint scraper to do that with), and then turn the zone valve motor manually to unstick it. Then, have a buddy raise and lower the thermostat temperature setting (to cause the valve motor to turn to open the valve and then spin backwards as the return spring closes the valve) while you give the motor a few shots of WD-40. I have about eighteen V8043 zone valves in my building (apartment block with 21 zone heating system) and 90 percent of Honeywell V8043 zone valve problems are fixed with a shot of WD-40 in this way. When replacing the cover on the motor, note that there are 3 dimples around the peripery of the motor cover and three depressions in the housing of the motor. Line up one of the dimples on the cover with one of the depressions in the motor housing and snap the cover back down in place.

3. If it turns out that your motor doesn't respond to WD-40 treatment, 9 percent of the time that motor is shot. The way to test the motor is to take it out of the zone valve (it's held in with one or two small screws). Once out of the zone valve, turn the small brass gear and you should see the armature of the motor spin at a ratio of about 30 to 1. (just guessing on this ratio) That is, 30 turns of the armature of the motor results in one turn of the brass output gear. As you're turning the brass output gear, put a little friction on the armature of the motor so if there's a broken tooth in the transmission, the brass gear will turn easily without causing the motor armature to turn. If you find a spot like that in the transmission, that motor is toast and you need a new one. So, 90 percent of the time, all you need is some WD-40. 9 percent of the time, you need to replace the motor.

4. And, the remaining 1 percent of the time, you need to replace either the sector gear and/or the return spring. You can replace everything all at once by replacing the whole power head. A new power head will cost about $100. A replacement motor will cost from $25 to $35.

5. That part about the internal guts of the V8043 zone valve crapping out and needing to be replaced.....NEVER HAPPENS, not in a gazillion years.
A Honeywell V8043 zone valve has a rubber BALL that rotates on an axle at the end of a shaft. Every time the valve opens and closes, that rubber ball rotates slightly so there's always a different circular area on the rubber ball contacting the brass seat to shut off the water flow. The internal guts of a Honeywell V8043 series zone valve is similar in that regard to the seats on Crane Dial-ese faucets; it's almost unheard of for them to wear out. In the city of Winnipeg, with 670,000 people, there is only ONE plumbing company that has stock of one replacement seat for a Crane Dial-ese Tub & Shower faucet, and they've had that seat for the past 20 years. Honeywell V8043 series zone valves are the same in that respect; it'll make the front page if your rubber ball is worn out.

Anyhow, pop the motor cover off and give the motor armature some WD-40 and see if that corrects the problem. If not, test the motor by turning the brass transmission output gear while putting some drag on the motor armature and see if you can find a spot where the brass gear turns without spinning the motor armature. If the motor seems fine, then your best bet (rather than me explaining how to take the zone valve apart to replace the sector gear and return spring, is to buy a new powerhead for the motor. If it turns out that your zone valve is quite old, and you need to drain the heating system, wait until spring and buy a Honeywell 40003918-002 adapter kit and a new power head. The adapter kit allows you to henceforth be able to replace the power head on that old style valve without draining the heating system.

Hope this helps.

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#421162 - 12/14/07 10:30 PM Re: Zone Valve Stuck, How to replace? V8043E [Re: Nestor_Kelebay]
HeatPro Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/30/04
Posts: 28022
Loc: South New Jersey
Quote:

5. That part about the internal guts of the V8043 zone valve crapping out and needing to be replaced.....NEVER HAPPENS, not in a gazillion years.


We'll have to note that from your experience fixing all the zone valve problems on the continent, that a zone valve has never had clogging or freezing-up of the internals. It is good to be warned that so many repairmen have been ripping off so many customers, as they've purchased complete zone valves to replace failed ones. Their unnecessary complete replacements have been exposed now that all they had to do was come to the house to use WD-40 every few years, or use junk parts from old power heads that such homeowners have kept around for such an occasion, as used smaller interior parts aren't sold in suppliers. I hope in the future that they will be able to swap in junk parts quickly, so the labor time fiddling with worn or old parts won't be excessive.

Hopefully, homeowners will probably develop as much skill with stored junk power heads as you've had after ten or so years of DIY Honeywell zone valve repair as their zone valves stop working frequently.
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Friends tell people how to live past 60.

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#421163 - 12/15/07 04:35 PM Re: Zone Valve Stuck, How to replace? V8043E [Re: HeatPro]
Nestor_Kelebay Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/13/03
Posts: 8552
Harold:

Unless the heating pipes freeze, and the zone valve cracks, then it's very rarely that you ever need to bother with anything but the power head or motor on a Honeywell V8043 series zone valve.

The ball mechanism inside it is extremely reliable, and it's seldom anything ever goes wrong with it.

If HVAC contractors have been replacing the whole valve, then you're right, they have been ripping people off.

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#421164 - 12/15/07 05:12 PM Re: Zone Valve Stuck, How to replace? V8043E [Re: Nestor_Kelebay]
HeatPro Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/30/04
Posts: 28022
Loc: South New Jersey
Might be, might not. There are many things you haven't seen around the continent that you haven't seen in your apartment building, like antifreeze clogs, dirt, casting slag collections, rag, string, caulk pieces, even animals inside pipes left after installation.

A DIY takes responsibility for whatever he does himself; but a contractor can't do a repair, then leave, then be called back to redo what was missed. He also wouldn't waste time nor be ethical swapping junk parts from other jobs.

If the body is stuck, he would be accused more of ripping off a customer by a few drops of WD40 and using junk parts than using a warranteed new zone valve.

As you've never fixed any other customer's system, nor had responsibility and liability for a service call under a time constraint, you are labeling contractors from pure speculation. As an engineer, you can spend infinite time experimenting and speculating; but the repairman has to get in and get out. Labor time using junk parts and testing them takes more time than swapping a head or cutting in a new warranteed part. You have an active imagination; but that doesn't cover for having no real experience in the business.

You can write well and research enough info to write a magazine article, which is enough to impress a novice and marketing managers with no field experience, which is very useful in the publishing field. However, you'll never gain respect of a pro by making up hard and fast rules from no service company field experience.
_________________________
Friends tell people how to live past 60.

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#421165 - 12/16/07 11:08 AM Re: Zone Valve Stuck, How to replace? V8043E [Re: programmergeek]
programmergeek Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/14/07
Posts: 6
Loc: nj
Thanks for all the help i removed the motor and the valve worked, motor also felt fine. I put it back together and it worked but failed open again last night it looks like the valve is shut but maybe the moter is causing enought resistance to not allow the springs to close the valve all the way. Anyhow i am confused I am going to try replacing the motor for $30 it seems like the logical thing to do it is not worth my time trying to fix it.

I hope you are right it is just the motor it doesn't look fun trying to replace the whole thing.
Also the one that failed is not a honeywell, I can't find a brand but it has a motor that takes 2 small brass screws to hold it in rathor than the honeywell that has a screw and a pin. This looks like the older one in the system.

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#421166 - 12/17/07 07:22 PM Re: Zone Valve Stuck, How to replace? V8043E [Re: programmergeek]
Nestor_Kelebay Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/13/03
Posts: 8552
Programmergeek:

Did you try to give the motor a shot of WD-40? That may be all it needs. You need to take the cover off the motor to do that.

Look on the inside of the zone valve cover for the manufacturer's name.

Both Honeywell and Erie zone valves use the same motor. In fact, all Honeywell and Erie zone valves use the SAME motor, the only difference is that the motor mounts differently on different valves. On the older valves, there are screws on both sides of the motor holding it down. On the newer valves, there is a metal tang holding one side of the motor down while a screw holds the other side of the motor down.

Try this before replacing the motor: Take the motor out of the valve and have a helper turn the thermostat of that zone valve up and down. The motor should start turning and keep turning every time the thermostat is turned up. Hold onto the transmission output gear on the motor and feel if the gear turns steadily through an entire 3 or 4 rotations. If so, there's prolly nothing wrong with the motor. You probably won't be able to return the new motor for a refund.

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