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#391326 - 08/01/07 10:33 AM Basement shower - headroom problems, P-trap?
Whoatemyham Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 2
Loc: Nashville, TN
Hi all! Any input you could provide to our dilemma would be GREATLY appreciated:

We bought an "upflush" toilet for the basement (www.saniflo.com - the saniPRO unit), which uses a maceator and a pump to pump waste up to a standard drain line (in my case the kitchen sink line that runs across my basement wall). It sits on the basement floor. No digging required. It has inputs on each side to connect a shower and sink, and it'll pump that water up, too.

Ceiling is 7 foot in the basement. Code says shower must be 6'8" to be legal. I can't fit a ptrap and have enough fall to get the water from the shower to the pump in the 4" that i have to spare.

Question 1: Can I not use a ptrap? (The pump is between the shower drain and the sewer line - think the pump might be enough to block the gases from coming up the shower drain?) I know CODE says I need one, but let's pretend that doesn't exist for the sake of discussion.

Question 2: Are there any alternatives to a p-trap? Are there low profile p-traps or valves that will fit in the line and stop the gasses? What about the ProSet "Trap Guard"? Think I could make something like that work? (http://www.trapguard.com/index.htm)

Question 3: Any idea how I can make this work in 4 inches?

Saniflow says I can NOT break up concrete to allow room for the ptrap because it wont allow enough fall from the shower drain to the pump. But their own instruction booklet says 1/4 inch per foot, and it only has to go 4 feet to the pump.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Any input you have is greatly appreciated!!

Amy and Tim Hamson
Nashville, TN

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#391327 - 08/01/07 11:17 AM Re: Basement shower - headroom problems, P-trap? [Re: Whoatemyham]
bubbadersh Offline
Super Handyman

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 2278
Loc: Southern California
I really have no experience with pumping sewage and "upflush" toilets. I'm just brainstorming a bit and reacting to your post.

Quote:

... to pump waste up to a standard drain line (in my case the kitchen sink line that runs across my basement wall)


Don't you need to install a trap between the pump and the the drain line you are connecting to anyway? The trap would need to be installed at some point higher than the drain line. Code issues aside, would this not block the sewer gasses and address your issues.


Quote:

Code says shower must be 6'8" to be legal. I can't fit a ptrap and have enough fall to get the water from the shower to the pump in the 4" that i have to spare.


Why not just lower the shower height and install the p-trap properly. Shower height seems to be a milder code violation than not having a p-trap.
_________________________
--- bub

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#391328 - 08/01/07 11:25 AM Re: Basement shower - headroom problems, P-trap? [Re: bubbadersh]
Whoatemyham Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/01/07
Posts: 2
Loc: Nashville, TN
Thank you. I'm open to all "thinking out loud!" That's what gets the gears turning!

I am renting my basement to a couple. The man is 6'3", so having a short shower wont work. Plus, when I go to sell the home, I would think any home inspector would spot that fairly easily. So I figured if I have to break code, I'd rather it be hidden. But I'm starting to think that risking NOT using a ptrap would be a bad idea, because the ramifications of that could be a STINKY basement, and we don't want that. So I think my best bet is to see if there are shallow "low profile" ptraps on the market, or something else that will work to trap the gasses, but not take up as much vertical room. ???

"Don't you need to install a trap between the pump and the the drain line you are connecting to anyway? The trap would need to be installed at some point higher than the drain line. Code issues aside, would this not block the sewer gasses and address your issues."

I'm sorry, I don't understand. Could you elaborate for me? I'm new to this whole p-trap issue, so please be patient with me.

Thank you so much for your input!!!


Edited by Whoatemyham (08/01/07 11:28 AM)

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#391329 - 08/01/07 12:23 PM Re: Basement shower - headroom problems, P-trap? [Re: Whoatemyham]
bubbadersh Offline
Super Handyman

Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 2278
Loc: Southern California
Quote:


"Don't you need to install a trap between the pump and the the drain line you are connecting to anyway? The trap would need to be installed at some point higher than the drain line. Code issues aside, would this not block the sewer gasses and address your issues."

I'm sorry, I don't understand. Could you elaborate for me? I'm new to this whole p-trap issue, so please be patient with me.



Quote:

... to pump waste up to a standard drain line (in my case the kitchen sink line that runs across my basement wall)


How do you plan to connect the output of your pump to the existing kitchen sink line?

You are allowed to pump the waste to a high point that is much higher than the existing kitchen sink line. You can run a drain line from the pump output to a high point above the existing kitchen sink line. You then run more drain line down to the existing kitchen sink line. You install a p-trap between the high point and the existing kitchen sink line. Also, at this high point you want to install a vent line going up towards the roof.

You would pump the waste up to the high point and you would have a regular gravity flow drain from the high point back down to the existing kitchen sink line.

You need to wait until some of the real plumbers respond. They can address these issues properly and give you more correct feedback.
_________________________
--- bub

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#391330 - 08/02/07 07:47 PM Re: Basement shower - headroom problems, P-trap? [Re: Whoatemyham]
PAPlumber Offline
member

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 178
Loc: Washington state
#1 you will need a trap to shower you wish to install unless you dont mind smelling the poo in the tank that hasnt been pushed up the disharge line

#2 by code you cannot use the mechanical trap without approval from administrative athourity

#3 lower the floor area that the saniflo sits on by jack hammering up the floor ,lowering elevation of concrete by 8 inches ,then install the shower so it grades down hill to unit(better yet if you descide to do this route return saniflow unit and install a sump pump, plumbing pipes to it like you would do in a normal circumstance)

#4 Dont get it inspected and make it work by raising shower stall on a higher platform

#5 you could always open the ceiling above the shower and install a rainhead type shower head in a boxed out area

sorry the info here isnt what you wanted to hear but sounds like your very limited on your options with this unit,it soves some issues with plumbing but brings others with it if you wanted to add to plumbing system in basement


Edited by PAPlumber (08/02/07 07:51 PM)
_________________________
You can never have enough tools cuz the one you need is the one you dont have!!

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#391331 - 08/02/07 11:23 PM Re: Basement shower - headroom problems, P-trap? [Re: PAPlumber]
pinocchio Offline
member

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 137
Loc: Italy
Quote:

#1 you will need a trap to shower you wish to install unless you dont mind smelling the poo in the tank that hasnt been pushed up the disharge line

#2 by code you cannot use the mechanical trap without approval from administrative athourity

#3 lower the floor area that the saniflo sits on by jack hammering up the floor ,lowering elevation of concrete by 8 inches ,then install the shower so it grades down hill to unit(better yet if you descide to do this route return saniflow unit and install a sump pump, plumbing pipes to it like you would do in a normal circumstance)

#4 Dont get it inspected and make it work by raising shower stall on a higher platform

#5 you could always open the ceiling above the shower and install a rainhead type shower head in a boxed out area

sorry the info here isnt what you wanted to hear but sounds like your very limited on your options with this unit,it soves some issues with plumbing but brings others with it if you wanted to add to plumbing system in basement





I fully agree with PAplumber....

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